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Thread: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

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    Re: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    It's just repeating view that because he built a crude 1960s tech bracket racer he somehow has brownie points about performance cars - and it's so much nonsense.

    Modern performance cars are technological wonders by comparison, given not only they have to meet DOT, EPA and all other standards, such as noise limitations, they also have to do it on pump unleaded gas, have to get fairly reasonable gas mileage, and have all the creature comforts too - from sound deadening to air conditioning, power steering to cruise control, very comfortable seats to killer stereo systems, navigation, and computer managed brakes, suspension, motor and transmission.

    There are people for which the Viper is their dream car. Just reprogramming them will take them to nearly 700 hp and 700 ft/lbs torque, toss a blower or turbos on one and those numbers shoot up towards 1000, plus there is all sorts of suspension, wheel/tire combos, brakes and other mods a person can do. Personally I'm not fond of the look of the Viper nor for 2 seaters, nor would want that much of a LOOK-AT-ME! car, but that is just personal preference. I certainly could enjoy driving one.

    Walker was very much personally into modern performance cars.
    Crude? Yea, sure pal. What you got? I got money I can out run it.

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    Re: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    It's just repeating view that because he built a crude 1960s tech bracket racer he somehow has brownie points about performance cars - and it's so much nonsense.

    Modern performance cars are technological wonders by comparison, given not only they have to meet DOT, EPA and all other standards, such as noise limitations, they also have to do it on pump unleaded gas, have to get fairly reasonable gas mileage, and have all the creature comforts too - from sound deadening to air conditioning, power steering to cruise control, very comfortable seats to killer stereo systems, navigation, and computer managed brakes, suspension, motor and transmission.

    There are people for which the Viper is their dream car. Just reprogramming them will take them to nearly 700 hp and 700 ft/lbs torque, toss a blower or turbos on one and those numbers shoot up towards 1000, plus there is all sorts of suspension, wheel/tire combos, brakes and other mods a person can do. Personally I'm not fond of the look of the Viper nor for 2 seaters, nor would want that much of a LOOK-AT-ME! car, but that is just personal preference. I certainly could enjoy driving one.

    Walker was very much personally into modern performance cars.
    don't get me wrong, i love the old muscle cars. however, there is some really neat **** being made these days. the tech has really come a long way; back in the 1990s, almost everything you could buy new would be smoked by cars from the late 60s / early 70s. that isn't the case any more; ****, even the sport editions of some compact cars will set the pavement on fire. i have a Cooper S, and in sport mode, it really screams.

    not that i'm a speed freak anymore, though. too many damned tickets, and plus, i like being alive. sometimes i'll stomp it pretty good while accelerating, though. just to kick out the carbon, of course.

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    Re: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Given enough time and a brideport and I can build a gun.
    Yeah, and give me a Summit catalog and I could build a bracket racer. My wife and I both have BBC drag boats, old school motors, and either motor of which would blow away anything your bracket racer had. But that is ancient technology - and simplistic. Anyone can bolt together a carbed cast iron V-8 with off-the-shelve parts. Very simplistic. But the only reason I could think of why a person would do so is because they can't afford to have someone else do it instead. Your bragging is like someone bragging about changing their own oil - because they're time is worth less than $10 a hour to them.

    If you don't want to talk about cool cars including modern cars, don't.

    While Vipers are expensive, older used ones aren't all that much, and there are plenty of off-the-shelf modifications a person can do themselves OR have someone else do it. Many people actually earn more per hour than if they did it themselves, and getting your hands grubby isn't really a measure of manhood. And that Viper actually could be driven to work, the store, taken a road trip, or run down a bracket racer 1/8th or 1/4th mile track - the only thing your car could do that you had to trailer it to and from.

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    Re: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    don't get me wrong, i love the old muscle cars. however, there is some really neat **** being made these days. the tech has really come a long way; back in the 1990s, almost everything you could buy new would be smoked by cars from the late 60s / early 70s. that isn't the case any more; ****, even the sport editions of some compact cars will set the pavement on fire. i have a Cooper S, and in sport mode, it really screams.

    not that i'm a speed freak anymore, though. too many damned tickets, and plus, i like being alive. sometimes i'll stomp it pretty good while accelerating, though. just to kick out the carbon, of course.
    Exactly. Cars from 1972 thru the 90s for the most part really sucked in terms of performance. The new tech performance really first hit in 2004/2005 via computer designing and computer vehicle management. Once again, and on mere 91 to 93 octane unleaded, cars could have 12.5-1 compression or be running high boost blowers and turbos, and put our more horsepower per cubic inch than any muscle car ever did - plus MUCH flatter horsepower and torque power curves - without poisoning the air and having to fill up again every 125 miles.

    Plus as these modern performance cars also are more and more on the used market, they also become more affordable. They get twice the gas mileage, are safer, have vastly better brakes, better aerodynamics and overall are safer - plus will blow away old muscle cars. Old muscle cars have a "raw" power feel to them that is cool. They can still be set up to do the quarter mile plenty quick. But they can not match the overall of what modern performance cars offer.

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    Re: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Exactly. Cars from 1972 thru the 90s for the most part really sucked in terms of performance. The new tech performance really first hit in 2004/2005 via computer designing and computer vehicle management. Once again, and on mere 91 to 93 octane unleaded, cars could have 12.5-1 compression or be running high boost blowers and turbos, and put our more horsepower per cubic inch than any muscle car ever did - plus MUCH flatter horsepower and torque power curves - without poisoning the air and having to fill up again every 125 miles.

    Plus as these modern performance cars also are more and more on the used market, they also become more affordable. They get twice the gas mileage, are safer, have vastly better brakes, better aerodynamics and overall are safer - plus will blow away old muscle cars. Old muscle cars have a "raw" power feel to them that is cool. They can still be set up to do the quarter mile plenty quick. But they can not match the overall of what modern performance cars offer.
    you can tweak them pretty effectively, and there's the ease of learning to do it. i'm not a mechanic by any means, but i've taken classes on basic small engine stuff, and it's logical and fairly easily learned. the new computerized engines are much more difficult for the amateur to tweak. the other advantage to the older cars (besides aesthetics) is the raw power and throaty roar. i'll never get tired of hearing that.

    the new ones, though, are just so much lighter and safer; not to mention more efficient and quicker. if i accelerate like a complete leadfoot, i still get almost 30 MPG, and if i drive normally, i do better than that. they are starting to abandon the gray plastic unremarkable interiors that made 1990s sports cars so blah, also. and the tech in the cabin is awesome. i don't notice how much i rely on it until i get into my old Jeep. and my newest car is 2010; the new cars out now have made incredible leaps and bounds just in three years.

    i'm happy to see the progress. i was afraid that i was doomed to an adulthood where every car looked like a 1999 Civic. but ****, even the Civics look better now.

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    Re: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

    The complaint of the price of such high performance cars also is increasingly becoming invalid due to the passage of time and the used car market. I've written a lot about what my wife got me. Pure luxury. Super comfort. Full backseat and trunk. 67K miles with full service record. Before she spend some $$ to have it modestly customized (body) and taken back to showroom cosmetics, she had under $25K in it. 790 horsepower/1014 foot pounds torque. 0-60 in 3.4 on street tires, 11.3 on street tires et, 10.27 @ 137 mph in the quarter on M/T street/strip tires etc. And that due only to off-the-line limitations. If it is already rolling it is insanely fast.

    Such as the Cooper S mentioned above actually are more fun to dart around in and more matched to actual human skills, speed limits and street roads etc. Another member and I - who both have ubber fast cars - agree less than so extreme actually are more fun for "performance" playing as it is usable and personally challenging.

    The true muscle car era was actually quite short - probably starting with the 1963 3 duce 389 GTO and ending in 1971, as in 1972 compression had to be radically reduced. If I could have ANY old muscle car, I'd opt for a 1970 Boss 429. But, by today's standards, that wouldn't be all that fast on acceleration, and a slug when it came to any road course driving.

    Those classic muscle cars will always be special cars. But they are crude dinosaurs. They are the mechanical calculators that predated modern computers. But those old mechanical calculating machines will always be sorta cool. They were what they were.

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    Re: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    you can tweak them pretty effectively, and there's the ease of learning to do it. i'm not a mechanic by any means, but i've taken classes on basic small engine stuff, and it's logical and fairly easily learned. the new computerized engines are much more difficult for the amateur to tweak. the other advantage to the older cars (besides aesthetics) is the raw power and throaty roar. i'll never get tired of hearing that.

    the new ones, though, are just so much lighter and safer; not to mention more efficient and quicker. if i accelerate like a complete leadfoot, i still get almost 30 MPG, and if i drive normally, i do better than that. they are starting to abandon the gray plastic unremarkable interiors that made 1990s sports cars so blah, also. and the tech in the cabin is awesome. i don't notice how much i rely on it until i get into my old Jeep. and my newest car is 2010; the new cars out now have made incredible leaps and bounds just in three years.

    i'm happy to see the progress. i was afraid that i was doomed to an adulthood where every car looked like a 1999 Civic. but ****, even the Civics look better now.
    One draw back to now cars is the lack of unique creative body design. If you look at cars - particularly in the 1950s and 1960s, the freedom in aesthetic appearance and variety is FANTASTIC! Now because of safety demands (is there anything that could hook a pedestrian) and aerodynamics, for most cars I have no clue even what country the brand is, let alone what brand, it is until I see the emblem. Cars such as the Cooper (my Mrs. has a classic British mini) are distinct, and so are cars such as Camaros, Challengers, Mustangs etc. But for MOST cars and SUVs, there is little that separated them in appearance.

    They have GREATLY improved interiors from the super cheapie plastic.

    As for the ride and handling, most people have no clue how much computers not only designed it and the vast levels of testing, but also how much computers are actually controlling the car including suspension.

    The Cooper is German made and Germans are INTENSELY into using computers to blend performance, ride and handling to computer controls. The computers are doing everything possible to try to keep you from crashing AND to try to get the car to do what YOU want it to do. Their computer systems even are analytical, keeping record of how YOU personally drive, so to best calculate what to do with the motor, transmission and brakes to match your personality. It is all quite amazing and I had no clue until I really started researching it with the used German (MB) I recently got.

    For example, if the sensors detect you are taking a corner TOO fast, it will be applying the brakes and down-powering the motor, whether you touch the brakes or not. The analytical aspect, however, is "thinking" about how you usually drive to determine if you are trying to take the corner at maximum speed (performance driving) OR if you screwed up and something is wrong because you NEVER drive your car that fast around corners. SO... if you want your Cooper to be the most peppy, every now and then you need to punch it or take a curve a tad fast - so the computer "knows" this is one part of your driving personality.

    The MB I have was a 1 owner who was a radical speed freak and had the car radically modified including the computer system. The computer "knows" the driver is a speed lunatic - and I'm still not used to it. If I even somehow punch it, the car goes absolutely berserk for which, in 7 milliseconds (how long it takes the turbos to spool up to whooping 26 psi) it throws the transmission down to maximum torque (over 1000 foot pounds!) and does everything the car can to reach maximum hp (790) and then throws it back to maximum torque. It is more than I can handle and is unusable unless I want one of those tickets that no one ever wants to get (or I rear end someone).

    No, I don't like that if I lift the hood, other than checking the oil and water there isn't a thing anyone but an MB factory computer tech can work on, but modern cars are vastly superior by every measure.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-17-13 at 01:52 PM.

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    Re: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Yeah, and give me a Summit catalog and I could build a bracket racer. My wife and I both have BBC drag boats, old school motors, and either motor of which would blow away anything your bracket racer had. But that is ancient technology - and simplistic. Anyone can bolt together a carbed cast iron V-8 with off-the-shelve parts. Very simplistic. But the only reason I could think of why a person would do so is because they can't afford to have someone else do it instead. Your bragging is like someone bragging about changing their own oil - because they're time is worth less than $10 a hour to them.

    If you don't want to talk about cool cars including modern cars, don't.

    While Vipers are expensive, older used ones aren't all that much, and there are plenty of off-the-shelf modifications a person can do themselves OR have someone else do it. Many people actually earn more per hour than if they did it themselves, and getting your hands grubby isn't really a measure of manhood. And that Viper actually could be driven to work, the store, taken a road trip, or run down a bracket racer 1/8th or 1/4th mile track - the only thing your car could do that you had to trailer it to and from.
    Really many people earn more than $75 to $100 bucks an hour? Ever looked a shop rate? Doubt it. Let me know if you ever decide to throw on of your drag boat motors in a car and do some real racing.
    So you have been called out. So give me all the excuses why you cant "out run me" or meet to put up or shut up.
    Or are you just a wallet jobber that has someone else do your dirty work? Hahahahahaa
    Last edited by CRUE CAB; 12-17-13 at 01:51 PM.

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    Re: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    One draw back to now cars is the lack of unique creative body design. If you look at cars - particularly in the 1950s and 1960s, the freedom in aesthetic appearance and variety is FANTASTIC! Now because of safety demands (is there anything that could hook a pedestrian) and aerodynamics, for most cars I have no clue even what country the brand is, let alone what brand, it is until I see the emblem. Cars such as the Cooper (my Mrs. has a classic British mini) are distinct, and so are cars such as Camaros, Challengers, Mustangs etc. But for MOST cars and SUVs, there is little that separated them in appearance.

    They have GREATLY improved interiors from the super cheapie plastic.

    As for the ride and handling, most people have no clue how much computers not only designed it and the vast levels of testing, but also how much computers are actually controlling the car including suspension.

    The Cooper is German made and Germans are INTENSELY into using computers to blend performance, ride and handling to computer controls. The computers are doing everything possible to try to keep you from crashing AND to try to get the car to do what YOU want it to do. Their computer systems even are analytical, keeping record of how YOU personally drive, so to best calculate what to do with the motor, transmission and brakes to match your personality. It is all quite amazing and I had no clue until I really started researching it with the used German (MB) I recently got.
    Did you see the new Mazda emblem? It looks like the Toyota emblem. I can't tell them apart in style or emblem.

    The new Honda Civic has the same tail lights and the Toyota Camry. Was that a mistake?

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    Re: Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

    if you really want to drool, check out this 1953 Jaguar XK120 :

    0ccf83716cbb4b978461918b06fc4743.jpg

    broke a speed record at 172 MPH. plus, i mean, just look at it.

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