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Whole Foods employees striking over requirements to work Thanksgiving

Gipper said:
No, my post shows that there is infinite demand for low-wage, unskilled, uneducated jobs.
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That's odd. Your post shows that? As in, your post is a study about the matter, complete with empirically-gathered evidence to support your conclusion? It seems to me that your post expresses an opinion about the matter, and one that is subtly at odds with how conservatives usually like to portray themselves. You cannot on the one hand claim to support market economics, and on the other think there's some ethical imperative that Whole Foods should fire these employees.

Gipper said:
These guys quit and get fired, and they're replaced before the sun sets.
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Perhaps so. I'm not sure why that's relevant to the point at hand.

Gipper said:
You don't bluff the chip leader of the table when you're holding crappy hole cards. You're one call away from losing it all.
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Again, I'm not sure why this is remotely relevant. I'm calling out the fact that you call yourself libertarian, which rather strongly suggests you support market economics. But on the other hand, you seem to believe there is some prior ought here--an ought based on some principle or other. One point behind market economics is that it's procedurally determined. Whatever the outcome of the procedure is, that's what should happen.

Of course, we don't have that. I also don't believe that's correct. But if you're a libertarian, you should believe that--that seems to be one way to state a definition of libertarianism.
 
rabbitcaebannog said:
I find your remarks revolting. I don't consider people who work retail as bottom of the barrel.
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I was just using your words. Go back and review what *YOU* said. :roll:
 
Mason66 said:
You are why the US is such a **** hole when it comes to work.

You think it is OK to scam your boss for your own purposes and you could give a **** about the health of the business.
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It's called at will employment. And it's 100% legal, even if a lie is offered.
 
Gipper said:
Nice try. They can refuse to work if they want. They can also be fired.

Also there's a difference between not working for wages you cannot live on, and this.

That seems to be the ultra-liberal mantra - "they can do this and do that". Yes they can. And they can also be fired.
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We have to keep in mind what kind of business this is.

If this was a lawyers office I could see an uproar, but this store sells food, supposedly healthy food, and it is very important for it to be open on Thanksgiving to sell that food.

Thanksgiving is a holiday that revolves around food so it would be professional suicide to be closed on that day.
 
Mason66 said:
We have to keep in mind what kind of business this is.

If this was a lawyers office I could see an uproar, but this store sells food, supposedly healthy food, and it is very important for it to be open on Thanksgiving to sell that food.

Thanksgiving is a holiday that revolves around food so it would be professional suicide to be closed on that day.
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Yeah, there are many jobs where not working seems almost logical. Grocery is not one.

Can you imagine if nurses did this? My God, the outrage.
 
Cephus said:
I was just using your words. Go back and review what *YOU* said. :roll:
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Those were not my words. Those were your words I quoted and gave you an eye roll. Please don't attribute your words to me.
 
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solletica said:
It's called at will employment. And it's 100% legal, even if a lie is offered.
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But you support untrustworthy employees.

If they are going to lie about why they can't come to work, and the boss will know the next day when they come back, then as a business owner I have to assume that they are also going to steal from me.

Dishonesty cannot be accepted on any level.

I hope no employees take your advice to get what they want.
 
Hatuey said:
The fact that you're trying to show 6 posts over a 2 hour span as proof that I didn't spend time with my family. ;) Now follow me closely. You showed 6 posts, first one made at 12, the last at 2:20 as proof that I didn't spend time with my family. That's dishonest. ;)



Did Izods have a sale yesterday?
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Saying the same thing over and over does not make it fact.

Even children understand that.
 
Mason66 said:
Some people don't have families or are so far away that they can't get there, so what are those people supposed to do on Thanksgiving?
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LOLOLOLOL

That's a discussion point?

People dont have family available so they'd prefer to work all day?

Not to mention that there are plenty of alternatives, including friends, enjoying the outdoors (as a park ranger who KNEW that working holidays was part of the job, I can tell you that there are plenty of things to do and visit), watching movies and relaxing at home...inviting friends to YOUR home, etc etc etc.
 
Gipper said:
Yeah, there are many jobs where not working seems almost logical. Grocery is not one.

Can you imagine if nurses did this? My God, the outrage.
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I am not sure there would be anything said other than what that would do to the patients. Nurses are not in any kind of protected class.

Unskilled workers seem to be the cause of the month, so there is outrage that some people have to work on Thanksgiving in a business that told them they would have to work on Thanksgiving when they were hired.
 
Lursa said:
LOLOLOLOL

That's a discussion point?

People dont have family available so they'd prefer to work all day?

Not to mention that there are plenty of alternatives, including friends, enjoying the outdoors (as a park ranger who KNEW that working holidays was part of the job, I can tell you that there are plenty of things to do and visit), watching movies and relaxing at home...inviting friends to YOUR home, etc etc etc.
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That is not what I was replying to.

The other poster said Thanksgiving is for family and nothing else.

I replied that some people do not have family so what are they going to do. If they want to go to a movie on that day they should be able to do that and there should be employees working that day to accommodate them.
 
Guy Incognito said:
It's called "The Word of the Lord." You'll find it in the beatitudes.
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And you were just as "Godly" when you gave to charity.

What a load of crap....wealth is not a sin, God judges you on your actions and sloth, ignorance are just a couple that contribute to poverty. (Not all poor are lazy, for ex, just as all rich are not selfish)

What a load of self-righteous crap....not to mention that judgement is to be left up to the Lord.
 
Mason66 said:
That is not what I was replying to.

The other poster said Thanksgiving is for family and nothing else.

I replied that some people do not have family so what are they going to do. If they want to go to a movie on that day they should be able to do that and there should be employees working that day to accommodate them.
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My bad, had no context and didnt follow up.
 
Mason66 said:
Wrong. If an employee does not show up, they quit
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Sorry. In the US, if an employee refuses to show up merely for one day, it does not count as quitting (esp. if a valid excuse is offered and documented) and to offer that as a reason for termination of employment to references will subject you to a lawsuit.
 
Mason66 said:
But you support untrustworthy employees.

If they are going to lie about why they can't come to work, and the boss will know the next day when they come back, then as a business owner I have to assume that they are also going to steal from me.
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An illogical conclusion if they have never stolen from you before.

Mason66 said:
Dishonesty cannot be accepted on any level.
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It is legal.

Mason66 said:
I hope no employees take your advice to get what they want.
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Looks like they already have :)
 
solletica said:
Sorry. In the US, if an employee refuses to show up merely for one day, it does not count as quitting (esp. if a valid excuse is offered and documented) and to offer that as a reason for termination of employment to references will subject you to a lawsuit.
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You're wrong. That's not some sort of general condition. Many states allow at will employment. The employer can terminate employment AT WILL. Including when you don't show up for work for one day. A lawsuit will be laughed out of court and you'll end up paying the court fees as well.
 
Gipper said:
No, my post shows that there is infinite demand for low-wage, unskilled, uneducated jobs. These guys quit and get fired, and they're replaced before the sun sets.

You don't bluff the chip leader of the table when you're holding crappy hole cards. You're one call away from losing it all.
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:lol: w/the number of Taco Bell/McDonald's/grocery jobs that go begging, only a stupid manager would not hire someone w/food experience simply because he/she called in sick on Thanksgiving.
 
Mason66 said:
I am not sure there would be anything said other than what that would do to the patients. Nurses are not in any kind of protected class.

Unskilled workers seem to be the cause of the month, so there is outrage that some people have to work on Thanksgiving in a business that told them they would have to work on Thanksgiving when they were hired.
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That is a false point. Whole Foods never opened on Thanksgiving before so these people did not agree defacto to work this holiday.
 
clownboy said:
You're wrong. That's not some sort of general condition. Many states allow at will employment. The employer can terminate employment AT WILL. Including when you don't show up for work for one day. A lawsuit will be laughed out of court and you'll end up paying the court fees as well.
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And even with at will employment arrangement, current employment law bars employers from disclosing false information about one's employment. If an employee did call in sick on a specific day, and can prove it in court, and the employer claimed that the employee quit, it's law$$uit time.
 
solletica said:
And even with at will employment arrangement, current employment law bars employers from disclosing false information about one's employment. If an employee did call in sick on a specific day, and can prove it in court, and the employer claimed that the employee quit, it's law$$uit time.
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Could you post a link to an example of such a lawsuit being successful?
 
Mason66 said:
That is not what I was replying to.

The other poster said Thanksgiving is for family and nothing else.

I replied that some people do not have family so what are they going to do. If they want to go to a movie on that day they should be able to do that and there should be employees working that day to accommodate them.
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I would only agree to this IF those employees agree they are willing to work the holiday. One's person's rights should not trump another.
 
solletica said:
And even with at will employment arrangement, current employment law bars employers from disclosing false information about one's employment. If an employee did call in sick on a specific day, and can prove it in court, and the employer claimed that the employee quit, it's law$$uit time.
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Nonsense. What you describe does not constitute giving false information about employment. Quite simply, the employer can end emplyment whenever they will, again - AT WILL. That includes ending your employment when you don't show up for work. If you know your employer historically ends employment of those who do not show up for work, even with a "good" excuse on their part, then not showing up for work is defacto quitting.

Now, in terms of unemployment insurance, a board will decide whether you are eligible. If you quit or were fired and if you are thus eligible for unemploment benefits. I've seen it go both ways.
 
Phil_Osophy said:
Could you post a link to an example of such a lawsuit being successful?
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Reason 4: There's always a big cost associated with firing an employee. Here is where I appeal to your selfish nature. Even if you don't give a second thought to the employee's feelings (and I know you really do), here are a few of the costs, itemized for your convenience:

*Disruption and cost associated with recruiting, hiring, and training a replacement.

*Unemployment compensation for terminated employee.

*If you fight on unemployment, cost and disruption associated with that.

*Grievance administration.

*Disruption and cost associated with arbitration, if you have that.

*Possibility that arbitrator will reinstate employee with back pay, anyway.

*Cost of severance package, if you're lucky and employee takes it.

*Cost and disruption associated with inevitable charge of discrimination if you don't offer severance or employee refuses to take it. Or complaint filed with the U.S. Department of Labor, or some other government agency. Or belated workers' comp claim. Or dealing with local personal injury lawyer who has taken employee's case.

*Disruption and expense of litigation or defense of administrative complaint.

*Cost of settlement, if you settle.

*Cost of summary judgment prep, if you don't settle.

*Cost of trial if you don't get summary judgment.

*Potential cost if jury finds in employee's favor, including, depending on the claim, the employee's attorneys' fees.

Four reasons your employment lawyer thinks firing should be a last resort : Employment and Labor Insider : Constangy Brooks and Smith: Insight into workplace, affirmative action, workers' compensation, occupational safety, class action, and wage and
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It may not be the way it should be, but that's the way it is.
 
clownboy said:
Nonsense. What you describe does not constitute giving false information about employment. Quite simply, the employer can end emplyment whenever they will, again - AT WILL. That includes ending your employment when you don't show up for work. If you know your employer historically ends employment of those who do not show up for work, even with a "good" excuse on their part, then not showing up for work is defacto quitting.
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That arrangement would have to be well-documented, on paper, and accessible to the employee.

Even it were legal, no one would want to work for such a place. The smart employee would just post the agreement online somewhere on some blog (likely anonymously) to discredit the employer. Similar things have happened before. . .

Fired Amy's Baking Company Employee Reportedly Gives Reddit AMA, Calls Owner 'Demonic'
 
solletica said:
It may not be the way it should be, but that's the way it is.
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None of what that link says (which is itself a bunch of fluffy generalized nonsense coming from someone with a horse in the race) shows any of what you are saying. Again, the individual state board can just as easily rule that the employee quit by not showing up for work. But they are most likely to rule (at least from my experience here in Oregon) for the employer. In California, most likely not. It depends upon the state and the county board and the nature of the employment contract.
 
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