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Thread: Corporations Aren't People

  1. #521
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    So after a quick perusal:

    Two buns, two or three burger patties, two kinds of chicken, fish and the mcrib (and its bun, seasonally). Tortillas for wraps.

    All of which comes pre-prepared. They also have a breakfast menu.

    Still not seeing any real difference in labor at the franchise. McDonalds needs more storage space, inventory management. But In n Out cuts their own fries and soaks up the grease with towels, much more labor intensive, and I'm pretty sure they make their own patties in house. So that difference is pretty much a labor wash.

    And McDonalds paid crappy wages BEFORE their menu was bigger than In n Outs. So any additional labor from their expanded menu hasn't been compensated anyway. "More" work, same minimum wage.

    In the end, McDonalds has more combinations of the same handfull of ingredients, most pre-prepared at some factory. On-site prep labor isn't much different. They both slice tomatoes, prep lettuce(?), etc.

    Can you point at things McDonalds does in prep at the franchise that In n Out doesn't? Something that eats 25% of what could be wages? I can't.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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  2. #522
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I would say the devil is in the details for all of that. It's easy to say; not so easy to come up with an actual workable plan.
    "We don't do these things because they are easy. We do them because they are hard..."

    And the addicts say the first step to recovery is to admit you have a problem.

    Most on your side of the argument refuse to acknowledge there are any issues at all.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  3. #523
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    So after a quick perusal:

    Two buns, two or three burger patties, two kinds of chicken, fish and the mcrib (and its bun, seasonally). Tortillas for wraps.

    All of which comes pre-prepared. They also have a breakfast menu.

    Still not seeing any real difference in labor at the franchise. McDonalds needs more storage space, inventory management. But In n Out cuts their own fries and soaks up the grease with towels, much more labor intensive, and I'm pretty sure they make their own patties in house. So that difference is pretty much a labor wash.

    And McDonalds paid crappy wages BEFORE their menu was bigger than In n Outs. So any additional labor from their expanded menu hasn't been compensated anyway. "More" work, same minimum wage.

    In the end, McDonalds has more combinations of the same handfull of ingredients, most pre-prepared at some factory. On-site prep labor isn't much different. They both slice tomatoes, prep lettuce(?), etc.

    Can you point at things McDonalds does in prep at the franchise that In n Out doesn't? Something that eats 25% of what could be wages? I can't.
    I guess if you don't want there to be a difference, there won't be for you. I was in. Now I'm out.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  4. #524
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The need for food and shelter is innately coercive. Therefore, giving money to another person is coercing them.
    How so?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I guess if you don't want there to be a difference, there won't be for you. I was in. Now I'm out.
    There is a difference.

    More pre-packaged ingredients in more combinations.

    NOT in franchise prep.

    More storage and some kind of inventory system.

    But the guys on the grill are only cooking a couple different burgers. Not preparing and cooking ten kinds of fish. Not preparing from scratch several sauces.

    Almost everything comes ready to cook. there's more sauce bottles, but the sauce is made at a factory.

    I honestly don't see where McDonalds franchises have all these extra expenses that preclude paying more. Its not like they're throwing out all the fish they don't sell today. Its almost all durable pre-packaged. So it isn't waste.

    I'm reminded of a comedy bit:

    Taco: tortilla beans meat cheese.

    Burrito: tortilla beans meat cheese.

    Tostada: tortilla beans meat cheese.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    How so?
    Good question. I'm just restating what you said. You said, "The need for food and shelter is innately coercive. Therefore, no employment contract is free of coercion."

    I fail to see how giving money to another person is coercing them.

  7. #527
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Good question. I'm just restating what you said. You said, "The need for food and shelter is innately coercive. Therefore, no employment contract is free of coercion."

    I fail to see how giving money to another person is coercing them.
    There's a common thread with some conservatives that one is free to seek other employment if their current employment sucks.

    This is not an entirely true statement as people have to eat and are required by law to have paid for shelter.

    So if there are no other, better jobs, people are coerced by nature (and law) to stay or starve and get arrested for vagrancy.

    So there is "built in" coercion in any employer/employee relationship.

    Its why foreign labor is so cheap. Starving people will do anything to not starve. Event work 14+ hours a day seven days a week.

    And nobody is "lifting up" the worlds poor with their factories.

    China is losing business to Vietnam and Malaysia because they raised their minimum wages.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  8. #528
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    There's a common thread with some conservatives that one is free to seek other employment if their current employment sucks.

    This is not an entirely true statement as people have to eat and are required by law to have paid for shelter.

    So if there are no other, better jobs, people are coerced by nature (and law) to stay or starve and get arrested for vagrancy.

    So there is "built in" coercion in any employer/employee relationship.

    Its why foreign labor is so cheap. Starving people will do anything to not starve. Event work 14+ hours a day seven days a week.

    And nobody is "lifting up" the worlds poor with their factories.

    China is losing business to Vietnam and Malaysia because they raised their minimum wages.
    I understand that every person has material needs he is coerced by Nature herself to satisfy.

    What I don't understand is why giving money to another person can in any way be considered coercive. I would regard it as helpful, myself.

  9. #529
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    You obviously dont know dick about libertarianism.
    On the contrary; I know too much about libertarianism! It's a sham created to provide the illusion of offering freedom, while what it offers, is the freedom of the already wealthy and privileged to expand their wealth and their control over taxation, trade and other government policies. Libertarianism would not have grown so influential, based on the funding of rich libertarians like David and Charles Koch, if it wasn't for the fact that our modern personal technologies...beginning with television, and increasingly so with all of the new, handheld devices, lead younger people to both have delusions of ego and their own self-importance in the world, while encouraging increasing isolation and inability to interact with people in real life....facebook friends are not real friends for example!

    And, when it comes to media messaging, we live in a world now, where political opinions from the extreme right are considered part of the mainstream, while advocating nationalizing banking or essential industries is no longer allowed in MSM...either is any direct criticism of capitalism. You may notice that some mainstream liberals are allowed to advocate on behalf of social programs, environmental rules and regulations, and even raising taxes on the rich, BUT, as soon as a reporter or public commentator criticizes the system itself, and how capitalism makes people behave worse (i.e. Black Friday riots) and the lives of most people more unsatisfying, then they are effectively blacklisted from so called "liberal" mainstream media. A few examples: Chris Hedges, Cornell West, Noam Chomsky...after years in the public spotlight, try to find any of them invited on the Rachel Maddow Show or similar acceptable liberal programming.

    The shift in the political mainstream thought goes unnoticed by most people under 40, but anyone over 50 can see a huge shift in what is considered mainstream thought today.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    re: post 507.
    Thanks, I'm not going to have time to respond today, I'll try to get back to this one tomorrow.

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