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Thread: Corporations Aren't People

  1. #401
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    I'm not the one arguing for corporate statism.
    socialist and communist fail..........but where ever they crease power, they continue to try their failed system of government, ...which is all i was stating.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if the 17th amendment was repealed....states would have power again in the federal government [senate], ..to put an end to corporations powers, and those of other special interest......with the 17th, this moves america closer to democracy...and democracy is FILLED WITH SPECIAL INTEREST.

    the founders created republican government...not democracy........they sought to limit as much as they could special interest.....by creating separation of power......a republican form of government.........article 4 section 4 of the u.s. constitution.
    They certainly didn't want to create a Banana Republic.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Commie View Post
    One that you don't seem to have the guts to address directly!
    Sorry dude, I already dropped the economic truth a bit higher up.

    I don't get dodgeball tips from a fat kid, and I don't get economic tips from a communist.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if the 17th amendment was repealed....states would have power again in the federal government [senate], ..to put an end to corporations powers, and those of other special interest......with the 17th, this moves america closer to democracy...and democracy is FILLED WITH SPECIAL INTEREST.

    the founders created republican government...not democracy........they sought to limit as much as they could special interest.....by creating separation of power......a republican form of government.........article 4 section 4 of the u.s. constitution.
    I always thought that the Revolutionary War was about the power of the Bank of England, the King's bank, and the monies that founded and controlled the Colonies. The Banks had too much power and does that sound familiar?

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    I agree with his points which have nothing to do with Communism.
    FWIW, I'm not even a Marxist, as my exploration of Marxism has revealed that online communist communities are bitterly ideologically divided on many issues...from government to economics to family life to feminism to environment etc.. There is debate among Marxists regarding to what degree Marx and Engels believed they had arrived at some sort of end stage of ideological truth, or merely wanted their followers to continue striving and incorporating new knowledge and understanding in developing Marxist theories.

    A clear example comes from a group of leftist environmentalists who are sometimes referred to as ecosocialists. In general, the environment...which is my no. 1 issue...is not addressed hardly by Marx and Engels, while the nations that claimed to be creating communism, like the Soviet Union and China, were hell-bent to follow the same rampant exploitation of the environment that the capitalist western nations followed. Nowadays, the environment has become such a clear crisis for everyone today, that Marx's followers have to also get in step with proposing ways to deal with climate change and other hot environmental issues. The problem they have as an ideology, is that Marxism is based on the same materialistic premise that all enlightenment philosophies are: instead of people being dependent on nature and having to live within nature's limits, nature is just a set of components to be exploited for our gain. Trying to craft an eco-friendly Marxism may be just as difficult as creating environmentally friendly forms of capitalism!

    What I am sure of is that Karl Marx has the best critique of capitalism and the best explanations for the failure of capitalism today.

  6. #406
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if the 17th amendment was repealed....states would have power again in the federal government [senate], ..to put an end to corporations powers, and those of other special interest......with the 17th, this moves america closer to democracy...and democracy is FILLED WITH SPECIAL INTEREST.

    the founders created republican government...not democracy........they sought to limit as much as they could special interest.....by creating separation of power......a republican form of government.........article 4 section 4 of the u.s. constitution.
    you seem to be ignoring the history of the senate.

    U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > Origins & Development > Institutional Development > Direct Election of Senators

    This process seemed to work well until the mid-1850s. At that time, growing hostilities in various states resulted in vacant Senate seats. In Indiana, for example, the conflict between Democrats in the southern half of the state and the emerging Republican party in the northern half prevented the election of any candidate, thereby leaving the Senate seat vacant for two years. This marked the beginning of many contentious battles in state legislatures, as the struggle to elect senators reflected the increasing tensions over slavery and states' rights which led to the Civil War.

    After the Civil War, problems in senatorial elections by the state legislatures multiplied. In one case in the late 1860s, the election of Senator John Stockton of New Jersey was contested on the grounds that he had been elected by a plurality rather than a majority in the state legislature. Stockton based his defense on the observation that not all states elected their senators in the same way, and presented a report that illustrated the inconsistency in state elections of senators. In response, Congress passed a law in 1866 regulating how and when senators were elected in each state. This was the first change in the process of senatorial elections created by the Founders. The law helped but did not entirely solve the problem, and deadlocks in some legislatures continued to cause long vacancies in some Senate seats.

    Intimidation and bribery marked some of the states' selection of senators. Nine bribery cases were brought before the Senate between 1866 and 1906. In addition, forty-five deadlocks occurred in twenty states between 1891 and 1905, resulting in numerous delays in seating senators. In 1899, problems in electing a senator in Delaware were so acute that the state legislature did not send a senator to Washington for four years.

    The impetus for reform began as early as 1826 , when direct election of senators was first proposed. In the 1870s, voters sent a petition to the House of Representatives for a popular election. From 1893 to 1902, momentum increased considerably. Each year during that period, a constitutional amendment to elect senators by popular vote was proposed in Congress, but the Senate fiercely resisted change, despite the frequent vacancies and disputed election results. In the mid-1890s, the Populist party incorporated the direct election of senators into its party platform, although neither the Democrats nor the Republicans paid much notice at the time. In the early 1900s, one state initiated changes on its own. Oregon pioneered direct election and experimented with different measures over several years until it succeeded in 1907. Soon after, Nebraska followed suit and laid the foundation for other states to adopt measures reflecting the people's will. Senators who resisted reform had difficulty ignoring the growing support for direct election of senators.

    After the turn of the century, momentum for reform grew rapidly. William Randolph Hearst expanded his publishing empire with Cosmopolitan, and championed the cause of direct election with muckraking articles and strong advocacy of reform. Hearst hired a veteran reporter, David Graham Phillips, who wrote scathing pieces on senators, portraying them as pawns of industrialists and financiers. The pieces became a series titled "The Treason of the Senate," which appeared in several monthly issues of the magazine in 1906. These articles galvanized the public into maintaining pressure on the Senate for reform.
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Sorry dude, I already dropped the economic truth a bit higher up.

    I don't get dodgeball tips from a fat kid, and I don't get economic tips from a communist.
    And I don't consider the wisdom of libertarians...who believe natural selection theory applies to social interactions, and have no prescriptions to deal with concentrations of private power. Libertarian and similar objectivist ideologies, are scams crafted by the rich and powerful to justify an unequal distribution of wealth.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Are there enough college students and retirees to fill all the retail jobs?

    Are there jobs for them to move into to allow the next crop have a job?

    Retail used to be a full time job that paid a living wage.

    Remember the days when clerks had encyclopedic knowledge of the products they sold?

    When they rendered real service?

    I do.

    You get what you pay for.
    It really wasn't. The small mom and pop stores would hire a couple of kids to checkout and bag groceries or even deliver them. There weren't a whole lot of dad's working there.

    But, for the sake of argument, let's say you are correct. Welcome to the 21st century, where if you want to make a decent living and enough to comfortably raise kids, you best have some marketable skills.

    Gone are the days of a grocery store paying what you would consider a living wage - as it just makes the cost of business too expensive and there are multitudes of individuals willing to take a job at a lower wage point.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    It doesn't matter what you think is right or not, or how clear your point. I don't think the ruling on Obamacare was right. However, the Constitution makes it right. I think the Citizens United ruling was right. Now what?
    No. Their interpretation of the Constitution. That is the point. You are indicating that their ruling is accurate. I pointed out that this is not always so. That's what.
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  10. #410
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if the 17th amendment was repealed....states would have power again in the federal government [senate], ..to put an end to corporations powers, and those of other special interest......with the 17th, this moves america closer to democracy...and democracy is FILLED WITH SPECIAL INTEREST.
    Weren't most of the expansions of corporate rights created by the courts? The Citizen's United decision that has made unlimited corporate campaign funding possible, was a gift from the Supremes!
    the founders created republican government...not democracy........they sought to limit as much as they could special interest.....by creating separation of power......a republican form of government.........article 4 section 4 of the u.s. constitution.
    I've heard that before, and every time I'm left wondering why conservatives talk on endlessly about encouraging democracy in foreign countries, while refraining from using the word at home.

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