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Thread: Corporations Aren't People

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    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Tell it to the grocery market analysts that have reviewed the market and made those determinations. I can't speak to what is occurring in TN in your area, but I suspect there is more then what you are saying.
    I lived there for 5 years. The irony is I live in MA now with plentiful grocery stores in the area (a mix of union and nonunion) with much lower prices. You are not looking at all the factors.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    I lived there for 5 years. The irony is I live in MA now with plentiful grocery stores in the area (a mix of union and nonunion) with much lower prices. You are not looking at all the factors.
    Yes, I'm sure that the people that are experts on the market and make their livelihood by taking into account all factors, just don't know as much as you do. I have been following the grocery market pretty closely, as my wife does work there. A union store is going to have a hard time competing when they are paying more then double the wages of a non-union store.

    I don't know the specifics in MA or TN, but, again, I suspect there is a lot going on that you are not mentioning.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    I lived there for 5 years. The irony is I live in MA now with plentiful grocery stores in the area (a mix of union and nonunion) with much lower prices. You are not looking at all the factors.
    It's called "choice AND competition". It's why liberals...um, I mean people - still try to stand tall againt powerful corporations like Walmart coming into their community trying to take over. Of course, I can also understand the position of the non-union types, too. My position is this: if corporations are unwilling to live up to the tenants of Conservative, which includes paying fair wages that meet cost of living standards, then the people have every right to stand against them. Moreover, if corporations are unwilling to make changes as both the marketplace and society requires, government has no choice but to step in and try to fill the void.

    This is where we are today.

    The simple truth: corporations are not people. Man created them. Therefore, man can control them through proper legislation if necessary or the power of the purse if the collective will of the people decide to take such action. There is where you bent the power of "collectism" to "the will of the people"
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 11-30-13 at 03:21 PM.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    Yes, I'm sure that the people that are experts on the market and make their livelihood by taking into account all factors, just don't know as much as you do. I have been following the grocery market pretty closely, as my wife does work there. A union store is going to have a hard time competing when they are paying more then double the wages of a non-union store.

    I don't know the specifics in MA or TN, but, again, I suspect there is a lot going on that you are not mentioning.
    I think people put too much blame on unions when the reasons for a company's problems my reat more in management than anything else. Of course, the counter argument could be that union demands placed undue pressure on the company to put the interests of the employee ahead of their own self-interest. Both are to blame, but instead of corporations seeing where they can strike a balance in fair wages and benefits, many pursue aspirations of greed Instead. That's what stokes the anger of the people.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    As to the thread title, I agree completely.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I think people put too much blame on unions when the reasons for a company's problems my reat more in management than anything else. Of course, the counter argument could be that union demands placed undue pressure on the company to put the interests of the employee ahead of their own self-interest. Both are to blame, but instead of corporations seeing where they can strike a balance in fair wages and benefits, many pursue aspirations of greed Instead. That's what stokes the anger of the people.

    I keep hearing that. While I am sure management can contribute and, as you say, the unions do put undue pressure on management to make decisions not in the best interest of the company and end up delaying/preventing changes or eating up too much capital preventing other investments... but it strikes me as a bit odd that when an industry is very successful then begins to have major issues (auto, airlines, retail, etc, etc), it's never unions and their wage/benefit/workplace demands but always the fault of management.

    I don't buy it in 90% of the cases. It's very difficult for Jewel to compete with Walmart when Jewel has to pay $20.00/hour + benefits and has the standard union limits on how their labor is used while Walmart pays $9.00/hour and does not have such limitations or (for the most part) benefit costs. Walmart didn't always have the scale they have now, and they managed to become very successful - I would argue in no small part due to the amount of control they have on their labor.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post
    I keep hearing that. While I am sure management can contribute and, as you say, the unions do put undue pressure on management to make decisions not in the best interest of the company and end up delaying/preventing changes or eating up too much capital preventing other investments... but it strikes me as a bit odd that when an industry is very successful then begins to have major issues (auto, airlines, retail, etc, etc), it's never unions and their wage/benefit/workplace demands but always the fault of management.

    I don't buy it in 90% of the cases. It's very difficult for Jewel to compete with Walmart when Jewel has to pay $20.00/hour + benefits and has the standard union limits on how their labor is used while Walmart pays $9.00/hour and does not have such limitations or (for the most part) benefit costs. Walmart didn't always have the scale they have now, and they managed to become very successful - I would argue in no small part due to the amount of control they have on their labor.
    Cutting wages does not mean lower prices. People living in the community still foot the bill for those low prices. They just pay them in the form of subsidies for the workers. That is not the way any business model should operate.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I find it bizarre how liberals believe the first amendment excludes business. How does that work exactly?
    How exactly does a corporation give his heart to Jesus? I don't see how a corporation can exercise it's right to religious freedom. Can a corporation convert to an exhaustive religion with rigid standards by dividing the rituals amongst several employees?

    I can see both sides of this argument but I really have to side with the liberals on this one. A corporation has a different civic responsibility than the individual citizen.

    A corporation can enter into agreements and own property at the young age of 0. Individuals must wait until they are 18 to take on such agreements. 120 year old corporations can take on long term debt of 40 years. An 120 year old individual might not be considered capable of fulfilling a 40 year long agreement.

    An individual can die from cancer. A corporation is immune from illnesses that individuals must deal with. An individual must wear clothes, have a house, must consume water and must consume food to survive. Corporations can survive indifinetly without these hassles.

    A corporation and an individual are very different entities. To treat them equal in the context of the law is not possible. They are way different in nature.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    The problem with this is that it assumes that their isn't an equal and opposite force on the other-side. What this does is enable corporations to lobby in the same way that the pro-democrat unions do.
    Corporations outspent Unions by 10 to 1 in the last election. That seems equal to you?
    Business-Labor-Ideology Split in PAC & Individual Donations to Candidates, Parties Super PACs and Outside Spending Groups | OpenSecrets

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Cutting wages does not mean lower prices. People living in the community still foot the bill for those low prices. They just pay them in the form of subsidies for the workers. That is not the way any business model should operate.
    No better example can be found than in the number of Walmart employees on Medicaid or food stamps. No fair wages to keep up w/flation/cost of livi g, society then begins to flip the bill.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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