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Thread: Corporations Aren't People

  1. #21
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post

    ....Is it alright for corporations to speak for their employees on all matters as a collective? I don't think so.....
    Let me guess, it is okay for a union to speak for all their members as a collective in endorsing a Progressive candidate? But, but....

  2. #22
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    Harold Meyerson makes one think about personhood, don't you think? What about wars? People are drafted and go to wars, why not include corporations? Corporations get to itemize a lot of things on their taxes more than the average Joe or Jane. Why do they get to be a special person with extraordinary fiscal relationships with the state?

    Yes, I think Scalia is looking to see how he is going to open this can of worms -- real carefully.
    This argument seriously hacks me off, because it's a purely semantics argument of which dumb partisans, more left that right, routinely take advantage.

    Harold Meyerson makes one think about personhood, don't you think? What about wars? People are drafted and go to wars, why not include corporations? Corporations get to itemize a lot of things on their taxes more than the average Joe or Jane. Why do they get to be a special person with extraordinary fiscal relationships with the state?
    Harold Meyerson is an idiot. It's "personhood" in a legal fiction sense. That's why it's called corporate personhood. Or, if you prefer, "corporate legal-fiction-entity-ization-hood."

    No, corporations aren't obligated to attend wars or are entitled to vote. They're corporate persons. The fictional "person" status was created by the Judicial branch at the near founding of our nation, so that legal groups -- corporations, nonprofits, unions, universities, etc. -- can bargain on behalf of the collective, i.e. enter contracts, pay taxes or hold liability.

    For example, taxing one fictional person's income tax liability is a hell of a lot easier for the IRS than calculating and collecting the miniscule partial liabilities of each of the thousands of employees and individual stock holders ("owners"). Send one income tax bill for $100 to the Microsoft "person," instead of making each employee and stock owner pay a $0.005 tax.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    You're missing the point. Corporations do not have the right to speak for me collectively and say that it is a person -- a unit of one. If the owner wants to come out and say what he/she believes than fine -- just don't include the business as a whole because there will be dissent somewhere.
    If you don't like the political position of a given corporation then feel free to disassociate yourself from them. It's no different than the Democrat party speaking on behalf of Democrats or your congressman speaking on behalf of his constituency.

  4. #24
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    I have no idea as to what you're talking about. I never said that businesses were not subject to income taxes.
    I think you're being willfully obtuse with this question.

    You don't think corporations are people, or shouldn't be considered as people. Ok. Got it.

    Non-humans cannot vote. I think we can agree on that.

    We as a society believe in "no taxation without representation".

    Hence, if you are consistent and not a hypocrite, you also advocate that corporations shouldn't pay income taxes since they are not people and cannot vote. Correct?

    (Never mind any side or semi-related issues that you might use to distract from the inconvenience of this question. Stick to this scenario.)
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #25
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    If you don't own the actual business, or enough stock in it for your voice to matter, and you don't like the position a business takes on a particular policy, then you can always quit.
    I'm under no obligation to quit; the owner(s) are obligated to quit using me or other workers to form one opinion or belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I think you're being pretty unreasonable if you expect a business to consult with each and every employee on every decision the leadership of the business makes.
    As long as it does not include trying to change my beliefs than go ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    If a business decides it's going to open a production facility in China that's sort of a "political" decision in so far as it's going to result in either the off-shoring of American jobs or the creation of new jobs, that might otherwise have been created in America, in China.
    That has nothing to do with trying to change my beliefs or putting words in to my mouth, so go ahead.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    If you don't like the political position of a given corporation then feel free to disassociate yourself from them. It's no different than the Democrat party speaking on behalf of Democrats or your congressman speaking on behalf of his constituency.
    Better yet. The Democratic and Republican constituency groups -- DNC, DCCC, NRSC -- that make up the Democratic and Republican Parties are corporations.

    You can look them up on Hoovers.

    EG,

    DNC
    NRSC
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post

    Hence, if you are consistent and not a hypocrite, you also advocate that corporations shouldn't pay income taxes since they are not people and cannot vote. Correct?
    The owner(s) pay the income taxes not the business and those are human beings.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    If you don't like the political position of a given corporation then feel free to disassociate yourself from them. It's no different than the Democrat party speaking on behalf of Democrats or your congressman speaking on behalf of his constituency.
    This has nothing to do with my OP. Disassociating would not solve the problem now or in the future.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    The owner(s) pay the income taxes not the business and those are human beings.
    No, the corporations pay the income taxes; the owners and employees are taxed separately.

    So, are they properly "people" when they're taxed, but not so for anything else? Sure seems like it.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    The owner(s) pay the income taxes not the business and those are human beings.
    Business owners and their accountants all over the country will be surprised to hear this.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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