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Thread: Corporations Aren't People

  1. #261
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    This has nothing to do with your dislike of unions. The problem with one institution's power being diluted is the competing institution's power becomes more powerful. This imbalance of power is part of the reason workers can be exploited today.
    For educated, skilled workers, they have quite a bit of power. This is why headhunters exist - their entire occupation is to find people with the proper education, proper skills, and proper experience to add net value to high-worth corporations with their intellectual capital.

    Unions to protect marginally educated and skilled workers only exist (these days) to bring market inefficiency to wages - for a price. They collect very handsomely for their sevices. In fact, they're so bad that many low-wage, low-skill, low-education employers will gladly pay their workers an otherwise better wage. At least when they do this in a unionless workplace, they have workers who directly benefit and are happier, as opposed to unions who skim off the top and flex muscles of coercion, manipulation, and fear.

    At one point, unions were necessary to protect the lives and livelihoods of certain people in certain professions. Today, they're just greedy institutions whose entire existence is predicated on the lowest common denominator believing that they "need" them while using them for their own collective goals, both monetarily and politically.

  2. #262
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    For educated, skilled workers, they have quite a bit of power. This is why headhunters exist - their entire occupation is to find people with the proper education, proper skills, and proper experience to add net value to high-worth corporations with their intellectual capital.

    Unions to protect marginally educated and skilled workers only exist (these days) to bring market inefficiency to wages - for a price. They collect very handsomely for their sevices. In fact, they're so bad that many low-wage, low-skill, low-education employers will gladly pay their workers an otherwise better wage. At least when they do this in a unionless workplace, they have workers who directly benefit and are happier, as opposed to unions who skim off the top and flex muscles of coercion, manipulation, and fear.

    At one point, unions were necessary to protect the lives and livelihoods of certain people in certain professions. Today, they're just greedy institutions whose entire existence is predicated on the lowest common denominator believing that they "need" them while using them for their own collective goals, both monetarily and politically.
    False, many times the only time a company will pay their workers a decent wage with benefits is the fear of workers organizing in areas where unions are still active. Grocery employees, for instance, are paid pretty median wages in my neck of the woods because we have one chain with a fairly strong union. In other areas of the country where unions barely exist, the workers aren't paid nearly as well for same exact labor. It's because of a shift of power.

    Saying many workers are being exploited, the need seems to be real.

  3. #263
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    False, many times the only time a company will pay their workers a decent wage with benefits is the fear of workers organizing in areas where unions are still active. Grocery employees, for instance, are paid pretty median wages in my neck of the woods because we have one chain with a fairly strong union. In other areas of the country where unions barely exist, the workers aren't paid nearly as well for same exact labor. It's because of a shift of power.

    Saying many workers are being exploited, the need seems to be real.
    People being paid inefficient wages should not be a bragging point. However, if it works for them, so be it. I don't care about their side of the street as long as they don't come on mine.

    They can pay their scrubs 15 bucks an hour with benefits if they want. I'll pay mine 8 with no benefits. They don't like it? They can go work over there or just get the hell on.

    I leave them alone, and I expect the same courtesy.

    They better not bitch when I can offer a can of corn for 69 cents and they have to charge 1.19 though. For the same reason, if someone wants to go over there and "do the right thing" for 40% markup, good for them. My customers are plentiful.

  4. #264
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    People being paid inefficient wages should not be a bragging point. However, if it works for them, so be it. I don't care about their side of the street as long as they don't come on mine.

    They can pay their scrubs 15 bucks an hour with benefits if they want. I'll pay mine 8 with no benefits. They don't like it? They can go work over there or just get the hell on.

    I leave them alone, and I expect the same courtesy.

    They better not bitch when I can offer a can of corn for 69 cents and they have to charge 1.19 though. For the same reason, if someone wants to go over there and "do the right thing" for 40% markup, good for them. My customers are plentiful.
    Whose bragging about insufficient wages? The whole point is many workers are getting paid insufficient wages because their is an imbalance of power.

    Your concern about prices isn't a concern in my area. We have five markets within a short distance of us, they compete wildly for consumers. Everyone in the community benefits. We have competition, which knocks down prices. Workers also benefit from decent wages instead of having to depend on the state for the basics. The markets are all still in business because they believe in fair competition and are ethical in their practices.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Let me guess, it is okay for a union to speak for all their members as a collective in endorsing a Progressive candidate? But, but...
    No. But here's the difference between the collective bargaining activites of a union acting on behalf of its members and a corporate owner acting independently in a similar regard.

    If employees don't agree w/the candidate of choice they can voice their displeasure to union representatives or end their union membership. But when the CEO/President/businessowner steps into that role his only motivation is to protect the interests of the business by forcing his own beliefs onto his employees.

    To be clear, individuals who sign up for union membership accept that said union will "collectively bargain" on employment issues/benefits on their behalf. They expect that the business will always act in its own self interest. In any case, union members understand that the union generally speaks for its members. Those who disagree with its positions can terminate their membership w/o fear of losing their job. Conversely, an employee who disagrees w/the boss can expect some level of reprocussions.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 11-29-13 at 05:17 PM.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Whose bragging about insufficient wages? The whole point is many workers are getting paid insufficient wages because their is an imbalance of power.

    Your concern about prices isn't a concern in my area. We have five markets within a short distance of us, they compete wildly for consumers. Everyone in the community benefits. We have competition, which knocks down prices. Workers also benefit from decent wages instead of having to depend on the state for the basics. The markets are all still in business because they believe in fair competition and are ethical in their practices.
    InEFFicient...not inSUFFicient.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Whose bragging about insufficient wages? The whole point is many workers are getting paid insufficient wages because their is an imbalance of power.

    Your concern about prices isn't a concern in my area. We have five markets within a short distance of us, they compete wildly for consumers. Everyone in the community benefits. We have competition, which knocks down prices. Workers also benefit from decent wages instead of having to depend on the state for the basics. The markets are all still in business because they believe in fair competition and are ethical in their practices.
    Also, if they all pay those inEFFicient wages to their employees, then they're not competing hard enough. Collusion is not competition.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    InEFFicient...not inSUFFicient.
    Okay, whose bragging about inefficient wages.....

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Okay, whose bragging about inefficient wages.....
    Well, you are. You're talking about markets in your area paying workers more than the market determines that they're worth. If people want to expose themselves to that, they can.

    Put a Walmart supercenter in your area, and we'll see if people still don't mind paying a 30% higher grocery bill just so some high school scrub can get a Lexus.

  10. #270
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Also, if they all pay those inEFFicient wages to their employees, then they're not competing hard enough. Collusion is not competition.
    Workers getting paid median wages for full time hours is not inefficient. It benefits everyone in the community. I already explained having many markets in the area make them compete for consumers. There is no collusion.

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