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Thread: Corporations Aren't People

  1. #231
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's not entirely accurate. There are lots of deductions a corporation can take that an individual can't.
    In the thousands of effective "loopholes" out here, the percentage that corporations can take and individuals cannot is actually a small number.

    They exist, but not in the numbers that many want to think.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    The problem with this is that it assumes that their isn't an equal and opposite force on the other-side. What this does is enable corporations to lobby in the same way that the pro-democrat unions do.
    Difference being that unions represent the collective will of all their members.

    Corporations represent the will of the board of directors and stockholders.

    The difference is clear.

    All or some.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    They are "people" for the purposes of income taxation, but not for purposes of representation or rights. Perhaps you can show us the constitutional basis for that idea.
    I believe they are taxed because incorporation provides substantial benefits that shouldn't come for free.

    Originally, corporate "personhood" was a "convenience", allowing them to enter into contracts, etc.

    They cannot be arrested, incarcerated, executed. Nor would they want to be. The individuals who make up the corporation are not individually liable for the actions of the corporation.

    Corporations can't vote, but want to participate in the political process.

    Corporations can't be arrested, but want input into making laws that result in arrest.

    Make corporations actual "people", give them one vote. Send them to "prison" if they **** up, making them forfeit all profits/bonuses for the duration of the "sentence". Make them subject to the same taxation as individuals. Same deductions. Same bankruptcy rules

    THEN see how much corporations want to be "persons".
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  4. #234
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    If employees dont like what a corporation does, they can just decide not to work for them. If the people dont like what they do, we can just decide not to buy anything from them. Thats how a free market works.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Let me guess, it is okay for a union to speak for all their members as a collective in endorsing a Progressive candidate? But, but....
    I imagine there are union members who would like their sweet deal eliminated so support those who would eliminate unions and send their jobs overseas.

    As well as people who work for corporations that fight to prevent unionization and send their jobs overseas.

    The former CAN organize his brothers to vote to eliminate their union by supporting anti-union candidates.

    The latter can't say **** to the corporation about shipping his job overseas.

    See the difference?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Yeah, I know how the system works being that I am an American. You didn't answer my question though. I asked when does that make the right? Their final ruling doesn't make their ruling right... it just makes it their ruling. Plessy v Ferguson was a ruling that was NOT right. There are others... Am I more clear now?
    It doesn't matter what you think is right or not, or how clear your point. I don't think the ruling on Obamacare was right. However, the Constitution makes it right. I think the Citizens United ruling was right. Now what?

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    In the thousands of effective "loopholes" out here, the percentage that corporations can take and individuals cannot is actually a small number.

    They exist, but not in the numbers that many want to think.
    Are you talking about loopholes, or deductions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I believe they are taxed because incorporation provides substantial benefits that shouldn't come for free.

    Originally, corporate "personhood" was a "convenience", allowing them to enter into contracts, etc.

    They cannot be arrested, incarcerated, executed. Nor would they want to be. The individuals who make up the corporation are not individually liable for the actions of the corporation.

    Corporations can't vote, but want to participate in the political process.

    Corporations can't be arrested, but want input into making laws that result in arrest.

    Make corporations actual "people", give them one vote. Send them to "prison" if they **** up, making them forfeit all profits/bonuses for the duration of the "sentence". Make them subject to the same taxation as individuals. Same deductions. Same bankruptcy rules

    THEN see how much corporations want to be "persons".
    Take this simple example: Your property (say your tool shed) is destroyed by J. Q. Criminal or MegaCorp. If the citizen is convicted then you get nothing but the satisfaction of paying to lock them up for a bit, but you will get full restitution and likely a bit more from the conviction of the corporation.

    Would you rather have the captain of the Exxon Valdez (or even the Exxon CEO) locked up or have the millions (billions?) in clean up costs recovered. To assert that a corporation is not legally liable for its actions ignores reality.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Are you talking about loopholes, or deductions?
    Fair distinction. I actually did mean deductions.

  10. #240
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    Re: Corporations Aren't People

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Difference being that unions represent the collective will of all their members.

    Corporations represent the will of the board of directors and stockholders.

    The difference is clear.

    All or some.
    I also want reiterate to Buddha hamster that corporations have unlimited power in this area where unions do not. Unions must have the consent of members before endorsement of said money. It does not at all work the same way for corporations who do not need that consent from its stockholders.

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