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Thread: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

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    Re: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    They have no right to ban you from using a legal product in your own home.


    There is simply no justification at all. None.
    They can if that product's cancer-causing byproduct ends up in my apartment.

    It's an interesting issue...what is the ventilation system requirement that does not allow any transfer of air between dwellings? Strong aromas, such as garlic, often filter into adjacent apts....would that type of ventilation also allow carcinogens?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    They can if that product's cancer-causing byproduct ends up in my apartment.

    It's an interesting issue...what is the ventilation system requirement that does not allow any transfer of air between dwellings? Strong aromas, such as garlic, often filter into adjacent apts....would that type of ventilation also allow carcinogens?
    You're subjected to a constant bombardment of potentially harmful material from the moment you're born. Life comes with risk -- minute amounts of carcinogenic smoke creeping into my apartment from my neighbor's cigar seems like a relatively small one. No need to involve the police.

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    Re: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

    I hate the smell of deep-fat fryers. Given that there is no evidence that merely the scent of tobacco smoke constitutes any sort of health risk, may we not get the conscientious city authorities to ban deep-fat frying in the home as well? Oh, and barbecues. That s**t should be banned too.
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    Re: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    They can if that product's cancer-causing byproduct ends up in my apartment.

    It's an interesting issue...what is the ventilation system requirement that does not allow any transfer of air between dwellings? Strong aromas, such as garlic, often filter into adjacent apts....would that type of ventilation also allow carcinogens?
    If you drive a car you are doing the very same thing as a smoker, as cars emit carcinogens. If you fry foods or cook foods at very high temperatures or use gas to cook, you emit carcinogens. If the wind blows across a roadway or landscape of some kind it entrains silicon and carbon and other carcinogens in the air. If the amount of carcinogens emitted cannot be detected or discerned above background carcinogens how are you being harmed? Otherwise everyone everywhere emits harmful carcinogens from their own persons, therefore I could say technically YOU wherever you are, is harming me.
    Last edited by PirateMk1; 11-24-13 at 05:02 AM.
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    Re: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    You're subjected to a constant bombardment of potentially harmful material from the moment you're born. Life comes with risk -- minute amounts of carcinogenic smoke creeping into my apartment from my neighbor's cigar seems like a relatively small one. No need to involve the police.
    That is your opinion on what you choose to find acceptable. With that line of thinking, we should just not inform people of radium in their homes, or try to reduce pollution, or subject people to noxious fumes anytime. This is about one individual infringing on another individual...not the entire environment.

    Sorry, that 'theory' doesnt fly but it's fine for YOU if you wish to accept it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    If you drive a car you are doing the very same thing as a smoker, as cars emit carcinogens. If you fry foods or cook foods at very high temperatures or use gas to cook, you emit carcinogens. If the wind blows across a roadway or landscape of some kind it entrains silicon and carbon and other carcinogens in the air. If the amount of carcinogens emitted cannot be detected or discerned above background carcinogens how are you being harmed? Otherwise everyone everywhere emits harmful carcinogens from their own persons, therefore I could say technically YOU wherever you are, is harming me.
    Most of those things YOU CHOOSE to do, they are not imposed on you by someone else. You have control over them. RE: the environmental carcinogens....what kind of data do you have on the harm they are doing to individuals? Do they have the impact of second-hand smoke? Is that impact been documented and recognized? (If they cant be detected....?????)

    So for second hand smoke...IF the smoke itself reaches adjacent apts....that is documented as harmful unless there is some type of filtration in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    That is your opinion on what you choose to find acceptable. With that line of thinking, we should just not inform people of radium in their homes, or try to reduce pollution, or subject people to noxious fumes anytime. This is about one individual infringing on another individual...not the entire environment.

    Sorry, that 'theory' doesnt fly but it's fine for YOU if you wish to accept it.
    At the very least, demonstrate harm before you restrict others' activities in their homes. Show that your neighbors' cigarette smoke is a viable medical threat. And the fact is, we do subject ourselves and others to noxious fumes every day we drive to work, do our laundry, turn on and off the bedroom light, etc.

    We accept many environmental risks because we recognize the utility of things like cars and microwaves. Tobacco has no utility to non-smokers, so they seem to believe that justifies demonizing and marginalizing smokers.

    I speak as a former smoker -- it took me multiple attempts over several years to finally quit. Cigarettes had (and still have, to some degree) a powerful cultural allure, and they're highly addictive. Quitting is a painful experience. Have some empathy for those still grappling with it, or at the least, prove they're harming you before you push the law into their private spaces.

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    Re: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Most of those things YOU CHOOSE to do, they are not imposed on you by someone else. You have control over them. RE: the environmental carcinogens....what kind of data do you have on the harm they are doing to individuals? Do they have the impact of second-hand smoke? Is that impact been documented and recognized? (If they cant be detected....?????)

    So for second hand smoke...IF the smoke itself reaches adjacent apts....that is documented as harmful unless there is some type of filtration in place.
    I talking about YOU choosing to do them and therefor inflict harm on ME. Its a known fact every one of the examples I gave, do emit known carcinogens in a measurable amount at the source. Take your pick automobile exhaust, frying foods, cooking gas, ect. There are any number of studies. Why do you think people in California have to smog their cars? Because they just emit water?

    On those studies of second hand smoke do they ever mention how concentrated the smoke must be before harm occurs? The devil is always in the details.
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  9. #19
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    Re: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    At the very least, demonstrate harm before you restrict others' activities in their homes. Show that your neighbors' cigarette smoke is a viable medical threat. And the fact is, we do subject ourselves and others to noxious fumes every day we drive to work, do our laundry, turn on and off the bedroom light, etc.

    We accept many environmental risks because we recognize the utility of things like cars and microwaves. Tobacco has no utility to non-smokers, so they seem to believe that justifies demonizing and marginalizing smokers.

    I speak as a former smoker -- it took me multiple attempts over several years to finally quit. Cigarettes had (and still have, to some degree) a powerful cultural allure, and they're highly addictive. Quitting is a painful experience. Have some empathy for those still grappling with it, or at the least, prove they're harming you before you push the law into their private spaces.

    The harm in second hand smoke has been proven. So IMO you should not have the right to impose it on others. Personally even if not harmful, it gets in people's clothes and furniture and carpet, etc so to me, that is morally wrong too.

    And if you dont wish to accept the environmental risks of smog or microwaves, you dont have to. If smog really bothers you, dont sit in traffic. If you are really concerned for your health...and some people are...then move. And they do.

    But this is a very controllable issue we're talking about. If you choose to share walls/apts, etc then there are many concessions you have to make, legally, socially, things in your lease, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  10. #20
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    Re: San Rafael Smoking Ban, Strictest In The Nation, Goes Into Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I talking about YOU choosing to do them and therefor inflict harm on ME. Its a known fact every one of the examples I gave, do emit known carcinogens in a measurable amount at the source. Take your pick automobile exhaust, frying foods, cooking gas, ect. There are any number of studies. Why do you think people in California have to smog their cars? Because they just emit water?

    On those studies of second hand smoke do they ever mention how concentrated the smoke must be before harm occurs? The devil is always in the details.
    If you can prove that frying food fumes or cooking gas getting into your apt from mine are harmful than IMO it is no different from 2nd hand smoke. And no apt should allow exhaust fumes to get into attached apts...that is deadly and I assume property owners mitigate it with exhaust fans, etc since people arent dropping dead daily from CO poisoning.

    But 2nd hand smoke is proven to be a killer, as measured over time and exposure. I dont know about ppm. Do you want your baby in an apt with ANY 2nd hand smoke?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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