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Thread: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

  1. #11
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    Re: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    I haven't even read the book yet.
    Nor have I but their are various excerpts out there. Try googling it.

    The following link mentions using a switch on a 4-month old infants bare legs, gives the page number too. Thats just insane to me and can't even fathom hitting an infant with anything.

    Quotes from To Train Up A Child | Why Not Train A Child?

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    Re: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    Just don't list the names of the kids who were raised in these homes when I have a job interview to go to.
    No worries... I was thinking that this would work better as a secret society anyway. And you know that you will have problems beating anybody...

    Michael and Debi Pearl will benefit by your free advertising. I'm sure they'd be delighted to sell more books.

    I suppose they are part of society.
    You are advertising as well... every time you post it increases the exposure.
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Nah. There's training a child --- which I've done --- and there's breaking a child. This is breaking, and it's way too far.
    Obviously... the guy should be jailed for advocating child abuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Michael Pearl tells one mother on his website, "I could break his anger in two days. He would be too scared to get angry. On the third day he would draw into a quiet shell and obey."
    This is the first I've ever heard of the Pearl's.

    I've never read their book, never been to their website before today, I don't follow their teachings, I'm not a fundamentalist Christian, heck, I'm not even a Christian.

    But like most things taken out of context the quote above, and the rest of the discipline techniques cited in your list, as cited in your list, are misleading.

    Here's a full quote from the website beginning with the comment I've cited and continuing on:

    I could break his anger in two days. He would be too scared to get angry. On the third day he would draw into a quiet shell and obey. On the fourth day I would treat him with respect and he would respond in kind. On the fifth day the fear would go away and he would relax because he would have judged that as long as he responds correctly there is nothing to fear. On the sixth day he would like himself better and enjoy his new relationship to authority. On the seventh day I would fellowship with him in some activity that he enjoyed. On the eight day he would love me and would make a commitment to always please me because he valued my approval and fellowship. On the ninth day someone would comment that I had the most cheerful and obedient boy that they had ever seen. On the tenth day we would be the best of buddies.
    I can't necessarily say that I completely disagree with what I'm reading here.

    I would argue that while my parenting techniques are somewhat different than Mr. Pearl's they also include pain and punishment, have invoked a healthy sense of fear, and are very, very rarely even necessary any longer.

    When my kid acts up I count to three.

    One...

    Two...

    I can't remember the last time I've actually gotten to three. It's been a good two years, maybe longer.

    My boy, six-years-old, knows when I mean business and he knows not to try me.

    He rebels at times, and I think it's only natural that he does, and I tolerate it within reason because I think pushing the bounds of authority and asserting one's self are healthy and help a child grow into a self confident adult.

    But it's no secret that kids also need boundaries and structure to grow into secure, self confident adults and you don't get secure kids by providing wishy-washy boundaries and guidance.

    I get to see plenty of push-over parents and their children through my boy's school and sports teams.

    I have to say that I'm thoroughly unimpressed by most of their behavior.

    I don't think it's a coincidence that I'm stricter, firmer, and perhaps more "hands on" (so to speak) than almost all of the kids my son associates with, and the fact that parent-teacher conferences go something like, "What can I say? He's a bright boy. He's obedient, helpful, gets along with the other kids very well, listens when he's told to do something, and is reading at a first-grade level" or "He's the most athletic kindergartener in the school, and one of the most athletic kids in the school. I have to pair him with the first grade boys because he runs circles around his classmates. He knows the rules, asks for clarification when he doesn't understand them, and makes sure to enforce the rules when he sees them being broken".

    That's not to brag, because it's not bragging when it's true.

    That is to say that when you spare the rod you do spoil the child.

    That's as true today as it was 200 years ago.

    I really think that must be the message of the Pearl's book, from those quotes from the book (full quotes, in context) that I've been able to find and read online.

    I think the parents in the OP article took some very good advice and went so far overboard with it that it resulted in abuse and murder.

    I suspect, though I have no way of knowing, that those parents are probably not a great deal different than the hundreds of thousands of parents in America every day who are physically abusive, and whose abuse sometimes ends in murder, but who have never read this or any other book which treats on strict parenting which advocates for some degree of corporal punishment.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Nah. There's training a child --- which I've done --- and there's breaking a child. This is breaking, and it's way too far.
    Well put G. How weak an adult are you if this is what you feel you need to do to your child to "control" them.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Well put G. How weak an adult are you if this is what you feel you need to do to your child to "control" them.

    Actually it seems like that is exactly what he is advocating... 'breaking' the child, breaking their will entirely "so they're too scared to even think about disobeying", punishing them 'before' they disobey, all that extreme stuff.


    You "break" a child, you end up with a "broken" adult... who is either going to be too timid to stand in the world, or so bitter and angry over his upbringing that he could be a danger to others. This **** is crazy.


    You train a child... train them how to behave in a civilized world... but you must leave their spirit unbroken if you expect them to grow into a strong and stable adult. They have to learn to bend without breaking to make it in society.
    Last edited by Goshin; 11-18-13 at 07:05 PM.

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    Re: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Actually it seems like that is exactly what he is advocating... 'breaking' the child, breaking their will entirely "so they're too scared to even think about disobeying", punishing them 'before' they disobey, all that extreme stuff.

    You "break" a child, you end up with a "broken" adult... who is either going to be too timid to stand in the world, or so bitter and angry over his upbringing that he could be a danger to others. This **** is crazy.

    You train a child... train them how to behave in a civilized world... but you must leave their spirit unbroken if you expect them to grow into a strong and stable adult. They have to learn to bend without breaking to make it in society.
    I agree. I prefer to call it teach, but I think it's the same basic idea. (might just be that male vs female thing though)

    Either way, why would you want to disarm your child like that. You break them and they're screwed. But I suppose, for parents like these, it's not about doing what you think is best for them it's most likely about making things easier for yourself.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

    Doesn't everybody raise their kids wrong?

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    Re: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

    [QUOTE=Bodhisattva;1062560683]As a father of young children... thank you. I now have some techniques to utilize.

    Some of the discipline techniques the Pearls teach include:
    •Using plastic tubing to beat children, since it hurts a lot but leaves fewer marks to alert authorities
    •Wearing the plastic tubing around the parent's neck as a constant reminder to obey
    •"Swatting" babies as young as six months old with instruments such as "a 12-inch willowy branch," thinner plastic tubing or a wooden spoon
    •"Blanket training" babies by hitting them with an instrument if they try to crawl off a blanket on the floor
    •Beating older children with rulers, paddles, belts and larger tree branches
    •"Training" children with pain before they even disobey, in order to teach total obedience
    •Giving cold water baths, putting children outside in cold weather and withholding meals as discipline
    •Hosing off children who have potty training accidents
    •Inflicting punishment until a child is "without breath to complain."

    Michael Pearl tells one mother on his website, "I could break his anger in two days. He would be too scared to get angry. On the third day he would draw into a quiet shell and obey."


    Where is this legal?
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

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    Re: Another couple found guilty of murder for parenting by "To Train Up a Child"

    The simple solution here would be to use this Michael Perl's own methods on him until he shapes up and quits telling people to abuse their kids.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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