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Thread: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Start repealing state constitutional bans against civil unions. Gays and gay rights supporters did not pass them.
    That didn't answer the question.

    True enough. Even married heterosexuals occasionally abuse and neglect children. It is just less probable.
    The main point I was making is that marriage itself has been more abused by heterosexuals than homosexuals.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Actually, in prehistoric societies, the group basically raised the children, and fathers were often unknown. Esp. the biological father. Males came and went with females.

    We can see that many many hetero marriages do not succeed and even when they do....the stories of child abuse are common.

    TWO parents makes raising kids easier...financially and timewise (attention). Those things do add to quality of life but it's obvious as well that single parents manage to raise kids just fine.

    Few studies have shown any sociological differences in the kids from straight marriages or gay. Oh wait...does it matter if the straight people are actually married? What if they are just living together?

    Gay families are no different in the way they lead their lives. They eat dinner, go to soccer practice, take vacations, take out the garbage, to to PTA, join in community activities, go to church, etc etc etc. They get along...or they dont.
    I agree with fathers, but what about mothers in historical societies? I have nothing against gay couples at all. What I'm trying to say, and what the author of the article put forward is that every child comes from a mother...no child is born any other way, so even if that childs mother is gone, we should try to find the child the closest thing to his mother (i e another woman who meets the qualifications of the adoption agency). If there is no opposite sex couple that meets the qualifications then the next option should be same sex couples (women) then same sex couples men. This isn't discrimination, every child has a born right to a mother. This is not a gay issue.

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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Most of the children in the study didn't come from such a scenario. It was exceedingly more common that the child was from a previous relationship and then moved into the household with gay parents.
    I guess you shouldnt be limited to an incomplete study then. Data from both would be more relevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Which is irrelevant, so I am not sure why you are bringing it up.



    No it hasn't always been about children. I just explained how it is obvious that it isn't and hasn't been, and you just didn't even address those points.

    Just like in other issues like welfare and abortion....'think of the children!!!' always plays well in the media and in campaigns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The Real, Complex Connection Between Single-Parent Families and Crime - Kay Hymowitz - The Atlantic


    No, when I say parents, I mean parents, not parent. Both biological parents, mother and father.
    What do single-parent homes have to do with gay *marriage* or even gay couples with kids? Those are two parent families. You shouldnt be extending that study to gay marriage....a single gay mother or father....would their stats be any different? *That* would be a relevant study if we were discussing single-parent homes.


    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    In general biological parents are best, which is why most crime is committed by those without a father in the home or some other broken home situation.
    Yuh, I know but you still dont seem to understand what 'biological' means. And that's what I commented on, lolol. How often do you see single parent homes where that parent is not the biological parent of the kid? *sigh* I really did have to spell that out, didnt I?
    Last edited by Lursa; 11-24-13 at 01:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by mfriedmanrocks View Post
    I agree with fathers, but what about mothers in historical societies? I have nothing against gay couples at all. What I'm trying to say, and what the author of the article put forward is that every child comes from a mother...no child is born any other way, so even if that childs mother is gone, we should try to find the child the closest thing to his mother (i e another woman who meets the qualifications of the adoption agency). If there is no opposite sex couple that meets the qualifications then the next option should be same sex couples (women) then same sex couples men. This isn't discrimination, every child has a born right to a mother. This is not a gay issue.
    In those prehistoric groups, it was a communal type living and everyone...especially all the women was involved in raising the kid. And until there was language, it's doubtful a related female took the child of a sister that died, unless they were raised closely with her own anyway.

    More to your point, there were no little individual nuclear families raising their kids outside the community.

    And dont go inventing rights....'every kid has a right to a mother.' I'm sure every kid that's parent has died feels that way. I'd like to think every kid has a right to raised in a loving and secure home and not give a damn about how that was accomplished.

    What are they going to do at adoption agencies: Have a line up of babies and the ones not picked by hetero couples go to the gay couples? Do single heteros get to 'pick' before the gay couples? Before single gays? Shall we start a caste system there? All adoptive parents are interviewed and qualified for fitness, period.
    Last edited by Lursa; 11-24-13 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Got a little sarcastic, sorreh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by mfriedmanrocks View Post
    I agree with fathers, but what about mothers in historical societies? I have nothing against gay couples at all. What I'm trying to say, and what the author of the article put forward is that every child comes from a mother...no child is born any other way, so even if that childs mother is gone, we should try to find the child the closest thing to his mother (i e another woman who meets the qualifications of the adoption agency). If there is no opposite sex couple that meets the qualifications then the next option should be same sex couples (women) then same sex couples men. This isn't discrimination, every child has a born right to a mother. This is not a gay issue.
    Except that studies on attachment have shown that the mother is replaceable, and a kid who is say 10 has different needs from a newborn. If your criteria is a mother figure, then two women should take priority over opposite sex couple, so your bias is showing. Furthermore, i guess you'd be for removing kids from single parents and especially dads, even if their birth parent? Stable home, two loving parents of any gender, that is what the research has shown to matter.

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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    In those prehistoric groups, it was a communal type living and everyone...especially all the women was involved in raising the kid. And until there was language, it's doubtful a related female took the child of a sister that died, unless they were raised closely with her own anyway.

    More to your point, there were no little individual nuclear families raising their kids outside the community.

    And dont go inventing rights....'every kid has a right to a mother.' I'm sure every kid that's parent has died feels that way. I'd like to think every kid has a right to raised in a loving and secure home and not give a damn about how that was accomplished.

    What are they going to do at adoption agencies: Have a line up of babies and the ones not picked by hetero couples go to the gay couples? Do single heteros get to 'pick' before the gay couples? Before single gays? Shall we start a caste system there? All adoptive parents are interviewed and qualified for fitness, period.
    Firstly, we don't live in prehistoric times, and there is more than ample evidence of the value of a mother. To put it simply, yes, I do believe a child has a right to a mother. I didn't make it up, unless I'm mistaken, we all come from a mother. Why should a child not have at least a chance to first be placed in a mothers care? We can't ignore biological facts to aid a political agenda. People are not thinking of the children, they are thinking of some false, phony, sense of political correctness equality...Children need a mother and a father. period. If that becomes impossible, then alternative families should be explored. I was raised by a single parent...trust me you want a whole family. I'm not saying that I wasn't raised in a loving family, but I missed a mothers touch, voice, care. Nothing can replace that. Luckily I had a grandmother who took care of me, but men and woman are different. So don;t tell me we are just interchangeable...cause were not.

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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Except that studies on attachment have shown that the mother is replaceable, and a kid who is say 10 has different needs from a newborn. If your criteria is a mother figure, then two women should take priority over opposite sex couple, so your bias is showing. Furthermore, i guess you'd be for removing kids from single parents and especially dads, even if their birth parent? Stable home, two loving parents of any gender, that is what the research has shown to matter.
    Absolutely not. We over intellectualize absolutely everything. There no "right" way to raise a child. I don't care how many studies are made, their are way too many variables to take into account. All I know is that biologically a child is born out of a mother and a father. They compliment each other, and both have things to give a child. A mothers care is irreplaceable. I was raised by a single dad. And I love him, but I latched on to my grandmother as well because i needed to hear a woman s voice, and feel...Its a sad world when we can't understand the depth of humanity, the gift only a woman has to bear children because we want to run the world on political correctness, instead of inherent human natural value. We can't loose touch with nature. I'm not saying that gay people can't adopt, but priority should be given to a woman/man couple. followed by 2 women, and then 2 men. Just to give the child an environment that he was meant to have. Don't twist my words into thinking that a gay couple can't raise children properly, of course they can! especially if the alternative is foster homes and ****ty normal parents. But a child needs the balance of a mother and a father, ying and yang. Men are men. woman are woman.

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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by mfriedmanrocks View Post
    Firstly, we don't live in prehistoric times, and there is more than ample evidence of the value of a mother. To put it simply, yes, I do believe a child has a right to a mother. I didn't make it up, unless I'm mistaken, we all come from a mother. Why should a child not have at least a chance to first be placed in a mothers care? We can't ignore biological facts to aid a political agenda. People are not thinking of the children, they are thinking of some false, phony, sense of political correctness equality...Children need a mother and a father. period. If that becomes impossible, then alternative families should be explored. I was raised by a single parent...trust me you want a whole family. I'm not saying that I wasn't raised in a loving family, but I missed a mothers touch, voice, care. Nothing can replace that. Luckily I had a grandmother who took care of me, but men and woman are different. So don;t tell me we are just interchangeable...cause were not.
    So when an argument doesnt work out for you, you just try to drop it? You brought it up:

    Quote Originally Posted by mfriedmanrocks View Post
    We can. However, the nature of the family unit comes from human beings procreating and the social consequences of that. We can intellectualize it all we want but fundamentally, that it what it is. I'm coming from the basic view of nature. A child is created from a mother and a father. I believe we have to come away from that fact to understand the challenges of raising a child under other circumstances. The debate today is to overheated and personal, we should look at it from outside the box and not how it will effect gay people, but children.
    And perhaps you dont understand the definitions of 'entitled' and 'right?' Because of course it would be 'nice' if every child could have the ideal family and as you apparently know, that is not always possible.

    Even the straight couple marriage scenario often ends in divorce, abuse, neglect, etc. Even tho differently structured families may have their challenges, it's well proven that single parents, gay couples, families with adopted children, ect...all can raise happy well-adjusted kids...it's about committment, not biology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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