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Thread: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

  1. #141
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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage


    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #142
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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Care to back that up with some data? It's gotten pretty common. My cousin did it with his partner back in 2001. And they adopted within the US. Many also adopt internationally. It's only gotten more common.

    (Not sure why it matters how the couple comes across it's kids tho...lots of mixed hetero families too, with stepkids,etc)
    Most of the children in the study didn't come from such a scenario. It was exceedingly more common that the child was from a previous relationship and then moved into the household with gay parents.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  3. #143
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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Care to elaborate?
    In the study, he only considers "children" who still live at home between the ages of 17-22. This does not take into consideration children who may be living independently or children living at college. There is no data for children of gay or straight parents NOT living at home. Further, how long were the children living in the family situation in which the study coded them? If a child, at 18, lived with gay parents... but lived with straight parents or a single parent for 17 years, they'd be coded as the child of gay parents. This causes significant problems with the results.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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  4. #144
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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Yet you've never presented one with me.
    I've never seen a reason to.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #145
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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The studies posted suffer from major problems of convenience sampling
    No. When conducting these kinds of studies, randomization is nearly impossible.

    asking questions about children during childhood and not adulthood
    This is the absolute most appropriate way to garner the information needed. This is not a confound but a strength.

    not asking the children themselves
    Several of the studies use objective testing to attain the results. This is more accurate.

    not controlling for lurking variables
    When conducting studies like these, this kind of total control is pretty much impossible. The studies quoted do as well as possible.

    being conducted by biased researchers
    Nope.

    and comparing to single heterosexual parents and not just married heterosexual and biological parents.
    That's funny. You weren't paying attention. ONE study did that. All the others compared gay parents to heterosexual parents.

    Here I will quote from a far more recent (2012) and comprehensive study:


    How different are the adult children of parents who have same-sex relationships? Findings from the New Family Structures Study
    The article is behind a paywall, so either get yourself to a library or ask me if you have a specific question.

    There is much more, but I'd rather not get into copyright issues. I will just highlight the fields where children from gay couples tend to have statistically significant higher rates:
    Marijuana use
    Frequency of smoking
    Frequency of watching tv
    Frequency of having been arrested
    Frequency of female sex partners (among women)
    Frequency of male sex partners (among women)
    CES-D Depression index
    Current relationship in trouble

    And fields where children of gay couples tend to have statistically significant lower rates:
    Education attainment
    Family of origin safety/security
    Self-reported physical health (only for lesbian mothers)
    Level of household income
    As soon as I saw the link, I knew it was the study by Mark Regnerus. That study has been completely discredited as "junk" by the ASA for poor methodology and partiality. There are so many problems with the study, it's hard to know where to begin. ONE of the major methodological flaws is that Regnerus coded a parent as a single sex parent if they had EVER had a single sex relationship, regardless of whether or not it had anything to do with parenting. Next, the study did not consider whether the child had actually LIVED with the parent who had the single sex relationship... at the time of the relationship or ever. Further, the study considers the CHILD'S perception of whether or not the parent had a same-sex relationship, not the parent's. This is different than every other study performed and is based on a possible incomplete recollection. Finally, the study tends to focus on adult outcomes which may have been caused by other factors. THIS is why, in contrast to what you said, asking question about children during CHILDHOOD is the appropriate and accurate way to measure success, as this measure limits potential confounds. Regnerus himself admitted in later interviews that this coding may not have had anything to do with whether or not those parents were gay. So, your conclusions based on Regnerus's study are as irrelevant as his study is. VERY poor research on this issue, phattonez.

    For more information, here are two links that discuss the discrediting:

    Mark Regnerus Admits His 'Family Structures' Study Wasn't About Gay Parenting | ThinkProgress

    And here is the ASA brief that shows how the study is junk. Scroll to page 16:

    http://www.asanet.org/documents/ASA/...x_Marriage.pdf

    Nice try, but once again, you posted a study that has no credibility because of major methodological flaws.

    Oh, and btw... when talking about biased researchers, Regnerus is a conservative evangelical Christian who received $700,000 to fund his study from the Witherspoon Institute... a conservative think tank opposed to SSM.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 11-24-13 at 07:03 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #146
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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No, I pointed out major flaws in the studies, and then offered a better study that doesn't have these faults.
    Actually, you didn't. What you did was failed to point out flaws in the studies, actually MADE up one flaw that isn't accurate, and posted a study that is so flawed that the governing body (The ASA) that the researcher is part of, condemned the study as "junk". EVEN THE RESEARCHER admitted that his study didn't measure what he claimed.


    Isn't it funny how you can post studies that come to opposite conclusions and that's great evidence for why gays should get married, yet when I post a study that comes to the opposite conclusion it is suddenly irrelevant.

    I've said nothing about letting gays get married. Having kids, however, seems to be a much thornier issue than gay activists are willing to admit.
    What's funny is that you didn't do anything that you attempted. You didn't point out major flaws in the studies that I posted... and btw... those were the studies that I have posted here at DP for years... and the study that YOU posted was one that was completely discredited. Now, my guess is that you are going to google other studies that you believe prove your position, but have already been discredited, too. There are a couple of famous ones. Let's see if you hit them.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #147
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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So now Fox News, and even more hilarious, the Libertarian Party, decides what is libertarian? I guess then because I don't support abortion or medical savings accounts that I'm not a real libertarian.
    You're taking it rather personal. I never stated you weren't a real libertarian. I implied your view on this is not libertarian. It isn't. Abortion and MSAs don't even compare as both are advocated against/for on a societal wide scale. You seem to want to bar adoption/child bearing for gays and gays alone. Ignoring the fact that a) they make up only 3% of the population and it has been proven over and over again that they pose no threat to children and b) the standards you want to us use to bar child bearing or adoption for gays could easily be applied to some racial minorities (blacks & natives), junkies, musicians, and basically anyone between the ages of 19-25 in a metropolitan area. Would you support barring any of those groups from bearing children? Obviously not. You're a libertarian.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 11-24-13 at 10:34 AM.
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  8. #148
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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Except that most children of LGBT relationships are from previous marriages, so there's that. The myth of the gay couple that adopts children and raise them to adulthood is pretty much a myth. It's exceedingly rare.
    Which is irrelevant, so I am not sure why you are bringing it up.

    Marriage has always been about children, which is one reason why I hate that the state gives out marriage licenses. The whole concept of marriage has been bastardized through the state through marriage licensing and no-fault divorce.
    No it hasn't always been about children. I just explained how it is obvious that it isn't and hasn't been, and you just didn't even address those points.
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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    If it doesn't matter that they are not traditional parents (opposite gender), why would it matter if they are traditionally married (as opposed to common law, domestic partners, etc)?
    Start repealing state constitutional bans against civil unions. Gays and gay rights supporters did not pass them.



    or the horrors imposed on many children by opposite sex parents. While I agree that there is a traditional model of a family that can be superior to any other modern interpretation of marriage and family...it's certainly been far more abused and battered by heterosexuals than it has been by homosexuals.
    True enough. Even married heterosexuals occasionally abuse and neglect children. It is just less probable.
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  10. #150
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    Re: 'Gay' columnist blasts same-sex marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    So now Fox News, and even more hilarious, the Libertarian Party, decides what is libertarian? I guess then because I don't support abortion or medical savings accounts that I'm not a real libertarian.
    The purist libertarian view on marriage is the government needs to get out of it entirely because the institution discriminates against single people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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