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Thread: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

  1. #51
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    There is little significant difference between someone driving through town recklessly at 100 mph on their own and being chased. Whether and how long to pursue is a judgement call. Depending upon policy it's sometimes the officer on the scene who makes that call, sometimes an experienced incident commander.
    I think there is a large difference between the two. When you add more cars going the road at 100 miles an hour and the criminal knows people are after him the situation is with little doubt worse.

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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Read the thread.
    I did.
    The official report claims the action was necessary in order "to stop the ongoing threat to the public and the officers."

    Tyler's dad says he was unarmed at the time.

    "So he didn't shut the damn truck off, so let's fire six rounds at him?" exclaimed Gary Shepley, Tyler's step-grandfather. "We're confused, and we don't understand."
    Hence my confusion.

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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I think there is a large difference between the two. When you add more cars going the road at 100 miles an hour and the criminal knows people are after him the situation is with little doubt worse.
    I can see you won't be convinced that sometimes the police need to chase people. I suppose we could just stop that altogether and roll out some form of honor system where folks eventually think better of their crimes and turn themselves in. We'll just all hope against reality that too many innocents aren't harmed before they do decide to turn themselves in.

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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yeah, nice exaggeration. I'm sure it's a daily occurance for you to have someone reverse and back a truck into your cruiser in attempt to get away and then refuse to stand down when cornered - not.
    No, I just approach individuals or groups of men, commonly drunk or hyped up on something, in the middle of nowhere, armed with AR15s, Remington 270s and 12 gauge pumps - chambered and holding them in both hands, for which they usually know they are all engaged in serious criminal offenses at the time.

    I am in far more potential "danger" than some unarmed punk in an old pickup on grass backing into my vehicle.

    In your theory and others on the forum, what I SHOULD do is wait until I have a big oak tree to shelter low behind with plenty of undergrowth to otherwise not make my location immediately apparent, and - taking careful aim with a 20 round magazine M1A - shout out "POLICE! DROP THE FIRE ARMS!" Anyone who even in the slightest turns my way then shoot him in the head and chest at least 3 to 5 times.

    In that situation not 1 in 100 are going to drop their rifle or shotgun. They're going to look all around trying to figure out where the hell that voice came from and what the hell is going on. Of course, as they turn about I really then MUST shoot all of them multiple times, right?

    Often, evaluating police shootings have many unknowns and gray areas. But not this one. There was no need to kill that young man.

    We haven't seen a video of that stop and shooting - and for some reason I suspect we never will... that, somehow, they forgot to turn on the video cams or accidentally deleted or lost then. But there are a couple photos and combined they show an old pickup truck on grass boxed in with trees in front of it and a 4000 pound cruiser behind it and another off a rear corner totally boxing in the pickup.

    They could have emptied dozens of rounds into that truck to disable it if necessary. Or the cruiser behind could have just continued to shove the truck into the trees and bushes making moving the 1 wheel, lightweight on the rear old pickup on grass immovable. This was a no-brainer arrest.

    Knowing exactly what the situation was and that he was unarmed, they should have backed off the chase. In very short order they could have arrested the unarmed likely-troublesome-punk already out of the vehicle and then thrown the book at him in jail. Maybe a bit of a beating before taking him there for "resisting" if the goal is to get him to move out of the area. THAT is how you deal with someone like that and if the goal is to get him out of town, that is how you do that too.
    Last edited by joko104; 11-08-13 at 04:40 PM.

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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I did.

    Hence my confusion.
    Now read the whole thread. If you're still confused by the shooting of a fellow (who had previous trouble with the law) who backed into cruisers purposely and refused to stand down when cornered, can't really help you.

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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Now read the whole thread. If you're still confused by the shooting of a fellow (who had previous trouble with the law) who backed into cruisers purposely and refused to stand down when cornered, can't really help you.
    Ah, previous trouble with police = license to kill.

    I read this
    The family's demands for answers got even louder following the revelation that a member of the Ames police department suggested twice that officers call off the chase.
    I don't think the cops needed to kill this kid.

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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I can see you won't be convinced that sometimes the police need to chase people. I suppose we could just stop that altogether and roll out some form of honor system where folks eventually think better of their crimes and turn themselves in. We'll just all hope against reality that too many innocents aren't harmed before they do decide to turn themselves in.
    Oh please, like people would just disappear and there would just be no way to ever find them again. Hell, I bet the kid wouldn't have return home. Nope. It was totally proper to chase him down and shoot him dead, because hey, it's not like you could have realized the kid has a home or anything.

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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Now read the whole thread. If you're still confused by the shooting of a fellow (who had previous trouble with the law) who backed into cruisers purposely and refused to stand down when cornered, can't really help you.
    "Refused to stand down"? Yeah, well chosen words. Leaving out "unarmed." "The offense of taking his father's truck." "Stopped and boxed in on grass."

    Please specify "previous trouble with law" as to details. A cop-killler? Murderer? Rapist? What "previous trouble?"

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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No, I just approach individuals or groups of men, commonly drunk or hyped up on something, in the middle of nowhere, armed with AR15s, Remington 270s and 12 gauge pumps - chambered and holding them in both hands, for which they usually know they are all engaged in serious criminal offenses at the time.

    I am in far more potential "danger" than some unarmed punk in an old pickup on grass backing into my vehicle.

    In your theory and others on the forum, what I SHOULD do is wait until I have a big oak tree to shelter low behind with plenty of undergrowth to otherwise not make my location immediately apparent, and - taking careful aim with a 20 round magazine M1A - shout out "POLICE! DROP THE FIRE ARMS!" Anyone who even in the slightest turns my way then shoot him in the head and chest at least 3 to 5 times.

    In that situation not 1 in 100 are going to drop their rifle or shotgun. They're going to look all around trying to figure out where the hell that voice came from and what the hell is going on. Of course, as they turn about I really then MUST shoot all of them multiple times, right?

    Often, evaluating police shootings have many unknowns and gray areas. But not this one. There was no need to kill that young man.

    We haven't seen a video of that stop and shooting - and for some reason I suspect we never will... that, somehow, they forgot to turn on the video cams or accidentally deleted or lost then. But there are a couple photos and combined they show an old pickup truck on grass boxes in with trees in front of it and a 4000 pound cruiser behind it and another off a rear corner totally boxing in the pickup. They could have emptied dozens of rounds into that truck to disable it if necessary.
    I forwarded no such theory, that's all your strawman as are the distorted details of your presumed reaction. And if you're all alone in the middle of nowhere when you know you're going to be faced with a number of armed individuals all hostiles, either your Sheriff hates your guts and wants you dead or you're doing some serious against policy cowboy crap. The correct response to the situation you engineered is to leave and come back with enough backup to effect the arrests with the least chance of a gun battle and enough backup to win said battle decisively if it does occur.

    I get it, in your opinion, not knowing what kind of record the kid had, you would have tried to shoot up the truck - something against policy in every police and sherrifs departments I've ever seen out West here. The reason why that is not done is that ricochets kill and maim innocents and it takes a lot of ammo to disable a vehicle in real life. And no, gas tanks don't explode when you shoot them like they do in the movies.

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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Oh please, like people would just disappear and there would just be no way to ever find them again. Hell, I bet the kid wouldn't have return home. Nope. It was totally proper to chase him down and shoot him dead, because hey, it's not like you could have realized the kid has a home or anything.
    Not the issue here, and you keep ducking from the general to the specific.

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