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Thread: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

  1. #161
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Can you blame them, there are more gun owners out there and more nutballs out there then there ever have been. Of course this is going to increase the number of officers shooting people. When people think they can just say or do anything around a police officer because the constitution says they can, you going to have some conflicts. Officers, like people, run on emotion. If they feel threatened, or are taunted enough, they will act out. You don't poke a tiger with a stick, so why poke an officer with a gun. Does not seem very smart to me no matter what a piece of paper tells you your legally entitled to. Fight the officer in court, not on the street. If he is wrong, then it will be easy to prove it in a court of law. Which is what the constitution was designed to encourage. You have rights, sure.. But there is a time and place to fight that fight, and its not on the street with the officer, right or wrong.
    OF course you blame them. When they shoot an innocent person they broke the law. They are trained. We are seeing more innocent people being shot due to no knock warrants than ever... cases like this kid getting shot too. BAd cops ruin it for the good ones but to justify the idiocy and criminal behaviour of some is ridiculous.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Under some member's logic, no fire fighter should EVER take the slightest risks. All they should ever do is tape off the area and watch it all burn down. If anyone is trapped inside that's too bad, fire fighters shouldn't take any risks. Besides, one of those people might have a gun, might be delirous or a criminal. Or anything else could happen. Like all those risk taking firefighters on 911. What the hell were they thinking? Don't they know their only job is to keep themselves safe? So by all means stay away from fires - other than maybe pump kerosene on it to make it burn faster so they can leave faster back to the safety of the firehouse.

    That seems to be the attitude by some about the police. When in any doubt, shoot to kill.
    Cops here are unarmed... they seem to be able to deal with gangs and difficult situations most of the time. Very VERY rarely is the Armed Offenders Squad (SWAT) called in.

    ...and how many times was I almost hit by a car while securing a scene? More than a few. I should have shot them for Assault on a Fire Fighter.
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  3. #163
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Can you blame them, there are more gun owners out there and more nutballs out there then there ever have been. Of course this is going to increase the number of officers shooting people. When people think they can just say or do anything around a police officer because the constitution says they can, you going to have some conflicts. Officers, like people, run on emotion. If they feel threatened, or are taunted enough, they will act out. You don't poke a tiger with a stick, so why poke an officer with a gun. Does not seem very smart to me no matter what a piece of paper tells you your legally entitled to. Fight the officer in court, not on the street. If he is wrong, then it will be easy to prove it in a court of law. Which is what the constitution was designed to encourage. You have rights, sure.. But there is a time and place to fight that fight, and its not on the street with the officer, right or wrong.
    Oh swell, blame gun owners for the unarmed kid getting gunned down by a police officer.

    Police officers aren't suppose to be tiger's that kill in response to being poked with a stick. The complaint is that too many are.

  4. #164
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    What gun owner had anything to do with this situation?
    Gun owners have everything to do with this situation. Due to the easy access of firearms, the prevailence of them is high. Which means, as an officer, you have to presume that everyone you encounter is armed. To do otherwise, is simply ignorant.
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Under some member's logic, no fire fighter should EVER take the slightest risks. All they should ever do is tape off the area and watch it all burn down. If anyone is trapped inside that's too bad, fire fighters shouldn't take any risks. Besides, one of those people might have a gun, might be delirous or a criminal. Or anything else could happen. Like all those risk taking firefighters on 911. What the hell were they thinking? Don't they know their only job is to keep themselves safe? So by all means stay away from fires - other than maybe pump kerosene on it to make it burn faster so they can leave faster back to the safety of the firehouse.

    That seems to be the attitude by some about the police. When in any doubt, shoot to kill.
    And cops should just let out of control scumbags drive around with a 4500lb weapon at their disposal.

  6. #166
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Thanks for the link.

    Shooting was unnecessary and complete over kill (no pun intended). No officer's life was in danger. They got out of their cars and they STILL were not in immediate danger. They just started blasting away.

    Hey, I am all for cops killing bad guys. I am pro-DP. This incident though, is utter bull****. The cop should be put in jail but at the very least fired from his job.
    It was not only the officers safety that is in danger here. This individuals driving was dangerous enough to kill a member of the public. Now I could see there being a case made that they should have stopped the chase in hopes the irradict driving would cease once the teen was not being followed by police. Then again, an argument could be made that if police stopped persuing people when things got dangerous, people would feel inclided to flee more often then give up in hopes they would get away. There is value in deterrence.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  7. #167
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    OF course you blame them. When they shoot an innocent person they broke the law. They are trained. We are seeing more innocent people being shot due to no knock warrants than ever... cases like this kid getting shot too. BAd cops ruin it for the good ones but to justify the idiocy and criminal behaviour of some is ridiculous.
    People would not be getting shot if they just complied with an officers orders, legal or not. And then taking their fight to the courthouse rather than on the street with the officer.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  8. #168
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    It was not only the officers safety that is in danger here. This individuals driving was dangerous enough to kill a member of the public. Now I could see there being a case made that they should have stopped the chase in hopes the irradict driving would cease once the teen was not being followed by police. Then again, an argument could be made that if police stopped persuing people when things got dangerous, people would feel inclided to flee more often then give up in hopes they would get away. There is value in deterrence.
    When he blew through that light they should have backed off and re-acquired. But they didn't and that is fine too... the officers "safety" is not the reason to produce deadly force. The officer's life being in jeopardy is. Their lives were NOT in jeopardy. Cops jump into fights to break them up line up in front of rioters throwing things at them and don't just start blasting away. False argument.

    People would not be getting shot if they just complied with an officers orders, legal or not. And then taking their fight to the courthouse rather than on the street with the officer.
    Of course people are getting shot. No knock warrants are one example. Read up on them if you are not knowledgeable.

    Gun owners have everything to do with this situation. Due to the easy access of firearms, the prevailence of them is high. Which means, as an officer, you have to presume that everyone you encounter is armed. To do otherwise, is simply ignorant.
    Most people do not own guns. Most gun owners own multiple guns. To assume that everybody is armed is ridiculous. To go in thinking that a gun encounter might occur is retarded beyond comprehension.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  9. #169
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    When he blew through that light they should have backed off and re-acquired. But they didn't and that is fine too... the officers "safety" is not the reason to produce deadly force. The officer's life being in jeopardy is. Their lives were NOT in jeopardy. Cops jump into fights to break them up line up in front of rioters throwing things at them and don't just start blasting away. False argument.
    Your cops do it differently I know, and for a number of good reasons that don't work here. One you have CCTV and road license and reg checks everywhere so you can always pick the perp up later. We don't go for that crap. Two, your roadways (not the large arteries but the small roadways) are make for hobbit town and barely fit two way traffic as it is. Three, different culture - your folks use knives and bats where ours use guns. Your cops are also hamstrung by a system that almost always lets the perp walk even when they have presented a significant public danger.

    I don't think you're in any position to evaluate what the danger is here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Of course people are getting shot. No knock warrants are one example. Read up on them if you are not knowledgeable.
    I've seen your drug raids and they have even less of a standard to enter and toss. Once they have said warrant they do not have to knock and announce, at least I've never seen them do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Most people do not own guns. Most gun owners own multiple guns. To assume that everybody is armed is ridiculous. To go in thinking that a gun encounter might occur is retarded beyond comprehension.
    This kid as we call him has a previous record with the police, a record we are not party to here and may indeed include gun charges. You are correct that not everyone owns a gun here, but most everyone may. Officers need to treat each stop as if they do. That's not retarded, that's basic common sense in our culture. In yours I can understand where it isn't.

  10. #170
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    Re: Dad calls cops on son...cops shoot son

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Your cops do it differently I know, and for a number of good reasons that don't work here. One you have CCTV and road license and reg checks everywhere so you can always pick the perp up later. We don't go for that crap. Two, your roadways (not the large arteries but the small roadways) are make for hobbit town and barely fit two way traffic as it is. Three, different culture - your folks use knives and bats where ours use guns. Your cops are also hamstrung by a system that almost always lets the perp walk even when they have presented a significant public danger.

    I don't think you're in any position to evaluate what the danger is here.
    First. I am an American. I was born in Corvallis, lived in Portland and lived in Southern California for 30 years. I taught in a drug and gang infested school in the East Bay north of Oakland. I know what I am talking about and judging.

    I've seen your drug raids and they have even less of a standard to enter and toss. Once they have said warrant they do not have to knock and announce, at least I've never seen them do so.
    They don't do many no knock drug raids here. And how do you know where I am anyway?

    This kid as we call him has a previous record with the police, a record we are not party to here and may indeed include gun charges. You are correct that not everyone owns a gun here, but most everyone may. Officers need to treat each stop as if they do. That's not retarded, that's basic common sense in our culture. In yours I can understand where it isn't.
    They need to be aware that they may be armed... that is not the argument. The argument is do you start shooting at a person that has not produced a gun. You keep changing the standard of the argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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