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Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passed"

Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

WillyPete said:
Maybe for you and me it would be hard, but it's a grand tradition in American politics.

Is the GOP led by professional politicians or not?
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I think Obama went way over the line with his lies on this one. It's just the magnitude of it all. One of the largest government programs ever, passed by one vote, he mislead the American people, rammed it down the throats of tens of millions of people that just pain do not want it, and it got zero republican votes.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

29 Lies on tape. It takes a certain type of mind to flat out lie like this, and then lie about the lies.
I guess he figures Team Pravda would back him up on this, but this turd is even too big for them to haul away.

To lie in this manner, about this "signature" bit of legislation and power grab reveals this guy has been doing this all his life.
Obama is a practiced, professional prevaricator that hasn't been called out by his own it seems... ever.



Reminds me of the Robert Plant tune... 29 Palms.

29 lies...

30 lies...
 
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Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

TheNextEra said:
If it's a crime, arrest him. However, it isn't, but then you know that already and are just spouting off righty rhteoric. Much like the left did with Bush and saying what he did was illegal and a crime. Nothing I mentioned excuses Obama from his responsibility, I just enjoy watching the righties like you on this board go hypocritical.

Rage on my right-wing foamer, rage on!
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Wait, but it was the democrats that were critical when bush did, and now when Obama takes it a step further you support him?? And it's the right that are hypocrites!?

No you are all being hypocrites, and it's disgusting... Does anyone in the country actually have values anymore??
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

BmanMcfly said:
Wait, but it was the democrats that were critical when bush did, and now when Obama takes it a step further you support him?? And it's the right that are hypocrites!?
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I'm not a Dem, I can only speak for myself and I didn't accuse Bush of that. I think I have already said that BOTH the Dems and Reps are hypocrites.

BmanMcfly said:
No you are all being hypocrites, and it's disgusting... Does anyone in the country actually have values anymore??
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Please show me with quotes how I am being hypocritical. As for values, you are accusing me of something I didn't do. Where are YOUR values?
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

Paschendale said:
So, how is this a surprise?
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Because casual folks that don't research a ton into politics or laws or don't have a fully working understanding of how regulations work heard one of the dozens of times Barack Obama stated unequivocably, broadly, and without any wiggle room or conditions that "If you like your healthcare plan, you get to keep your healthcare plan".....and now there's clear evidence that such a statement, in such stark and absolute terms such as "period" or "guaranteed", was completely false and that's causing people to scratch their heads. Especially since this was the man that was elected primarily and largely based off a campaign message of "Change" to "politics as usual" and to the way washington works and to partisan politics and to Bush era tactics and they're now being told that they should just ignore it because "hey, politicians do this kind of thing".
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

WillyPete said:
Do you think you'd be even more worked up if he had said "You can keep your coverage and doctor forever, even if the doctor dies, the parent corporation goes bankrupt and the hospital is burned to the ground!"?
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Barack Obama has no control over if your doctor diesHe has no control over the parent coproation going bankruptHe has no control over the hospital burning to the groundHe has direct control over whether or not his administration chooses that plans need to be "grandfathered" in for you to keep them.he has direct control over what requirements a plan must meet to qualify to be "grandfathered"No, I have no issue with him not qualifying his statement for issues he has absolutely no control off of. Yes, I do have issue with him not qualifying his statement for issues caused by his own administrations cabinet agency writing of regulations. I'm sorry you can't apparently see the difference. If his HHS agency was going to require that plans be officially entered into a "grandfather" status, and that to enter into "grandfather" status they had to meet specific criteria from now until the end of time, then he shouldn't have said "if you like your plan you keep your plan. PERIOD." He should've said "If you like your plan you keep your plan, unless you got your plan or it changed in way we dislike after the point that hte law is/was passed".(Sorry for the formatting, my browser is being strange and not allowing returns to be shown properly :\)
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

CRUE CAB said:
Nope, no slithering out of this one.
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It's true that nothing in the law would prevent them from continuing with their coverage.

BUT

If the insurer discontinues the coverage for any reason (ACA-related or not,) then it won't be available.

That's just context. I'll allow his original statement was inaccurate.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

Zyphlin said:
Barack Obama has no control over if your doctor diesHe has no control over the parent coproation going bankruptHe has no control over the hospital burning to the groundHe has direct control over whether or not his administration chooses that plans need to be "grandfathered" in for you to keep them.he has direct control over what requirements a plan must meet to qualify to be "grandfathered"No, I have no issue with him not qualifying his statement for issues he has absolutely no control off of. Yes, I do have issue with him not qualifying his statement for issues caused by his own administrations cabinet agency writing of regulations. I'm sorry you can't apparently see the difference. If his HHS agency was going to require that plans be officially entered into a "grandfather" status, and that to enter into "grandfather" status they had to meet specific criteria from now until the end of time, then he shouldn't have said "if you like your plan you keep your plan. PERIOD." He should've said "If you like your plan you keep your plan, unless you got your plan or it changed in way we dislike after the point that hte law is/was passed".(Sorry for the formatting, my browser is being strange and not allowing returns to be shown properly :\)
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I see the distinction you failed to make before.

You can blame Obama if you want, but it was the insurances company's decision to end the plan, rather than make it compliant. The ACA didn't require them to end those plans, even if it was a reaction to the new regulations. Obama isn't in control of that either.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

WillyPete said:
I see the distinction you failed to make before.

You can blame Obama if you want, but it was the insurances company's decision to end the plan, rather than make it compliant. The ACA didn't require them to end those plans, even if it was a reaction to the new regulations. Obama isn't in control of that either.
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False. The Insurers choice was in whether or not to participate in the exchanges. The contract they sign to participate in the exchange in California, for example, forced them to agree to terminate all non-ACA compliant plans by 12/31/2013.

So their only real choice was whether or not to participate in the exchanges... but since they HAD to participate in the exchanges by 1/1/2015 or be out of business it was not exactly a choice.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

jmotivator said:
False. The Insurers choice was in whether or not to participate in the exchanges. The contract they sign to participate in the exchange in California, for example, forced them to agree to terminate all non-ACA compliant plans by 12/31/2013.
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The insurance companies aren't "forced" to join the exchange and people can still buy grandfathered insurance policies directly from the company if they want to and if the company wants to sell them.

So their only real choice was whether or not to participate in the exchanges... but since they HAD to participate in the exchanges by 1/1/2015 or be out of business it was not exactly a choice.
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No, the insurance companies do not have to participate in the exchanges. They sign the contract of their own free will because they agreed to the terms, just like you agreed to the terms of DP in order to participate on the forum.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

Paschendale said:
I don't understand how anyone is surprised about this. One of the main points about the ACA was raising the standards of healthcare plans to a workable minimum. Obviously, some existing plans do not meet these criteria. So, some plans are going away. If insurance companies are attempting to exploit loopholes to keep the people who had previously been on these plans from getting better ones, or are exploiting the situation to try to charge these people more, then that is definitely a problem. But ensuring that no one was stuck with a sub-par plan was part of the ACA from the beginning. So, how is this a surprise?
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Entirely irrelevant to the point of the matter.

Obama made an unequivocal promise about 30 separate times.

He now claims he said something different, something he most definitely did not say.

That it should be a surprise to no one only makes his ~30 previous statements all the more knowingly dishonest, unless you'd like to claim that he didn't know something which, according to you, should have been obvious to everyone.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

Moot said:
The insurance companies aren't "forced" to join the exchange and people can still buy grandfathered insurance policies directly from the company if they want to and if the company wants to sell them.
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False and False. The insurance companies will not be able to sell non-ACA policies in 2015, and the only "grandfathered" plans by the way the policy is written are policies that already met the ACA regulations before the law went into effect. In other words the Grandfather rule is worthless.

No, the insurance companies do not have to participate in the exchanges. They sign the contract of their own free will because they agreed to the terms, just like you agreed to the terms of DP in order to participate on the forum.
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You are really still running with this lie?
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

jmotivator said:
False and False. The insurance companies will not be able to sell non-ACA policies in 2015, and the only "grandfathered" plans by the way the policy is written are policies that already met the ACA regulations before the law went into effect. In other words the Grandfather rule is worthless.



You are really still running with this lie?
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Any lie that sells is a good lie to the political left. They actually differentiate between perceived good lies and bad lies. It's amazing.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

Zyphlin said:
Because casual folks that don't research a ton into politics or laws or don't have a fully working understanding of how regulations work heard one of the dozens of times Barack Obama stated unequivocably, broadly, and without any wiggle room or conditions that "If you like your healthcare plan, you get to keep your healthcare plan".....and now there's clear evidence that such a statement, in such stark and absolute terms such as "period" or "guaranteed", was completely false and that's causing people to scratch their heads. Especially since this was the man that was elected primarily and largely based off a campaign message of "Change" to "politics as usual" and to the way washington works and to partisan politics and to Bush era tactics and they're now being told that they should just ignore it because "hey, politicians do this kind of thing".
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The same people who don't do research listen to the news all the time? I don't see how anyone could hear that standards for health insurance policies are changing and not understand that some policies won't make the cut. Now, if there are people who had these policies who are not being upgraded to those that DO meet the standards, or are being milked for more money to get their policies to meet those standards, then that's a problem. But you can't hang that on the president alone. That's on the insurance companies that were screwing those people over then and are continuing to screw people over now. That the president couldn't wave a magic wand and fix everything in one fell swoop doesn't diminish the attempt.

Frankly, I don't care what he said or what he promised. I care what he delivered, and if it wasn't what we wanted, I care why it fell short.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

WillyPete said:
Maybe for you and me it would be hard, but it's a grand tradition in American politics.

Is the GOP led by professional politicians or not?
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Are you saying that it's a "grand tradition", so you are okay with it and will accept it, no matter what the level?
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

WillyPete said:
So only the Dem are capable of manipulating the electorate? Does the GOP want to win, or do they want to complain about losing?

Recent history is lopsided.
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I am not sure what this answer has to do with the question I asked, can you clarify?
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

Anthony60 said:
Are you saying that it's a "grand tradition", so you are okay with it and will accept it, no matter what the level?
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I'm also okay with gravity. It's how politics works, for all participants, always. Our founders lied to the solders that fought the Revolution about their back pay. <Link>


Anthony60 said:
I am not sure what this answer has to do with the question I asked, can you clarify?
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My main point is that misleading the electorate is the foundation of our election system. You seem to imply that the Democrats invented misleading campaigning in the 80's or something.

If the voters are stupid, why does the GOP have so much trouble manipulating them? They've managed it before. What changed?
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

WillyPete said:
I'm also okay with gravity. It's how politics works, for all participants, always. Our founders lied to the solders that fought the Revolution about their back pay. <Link>




My main point is that misleading the electorate is the foundation of our election system. You seem to imply that the Democrats invented misleading campaigning in the 80's or something.

If the voters are stupid, why does the GOP have so much trouble manipulating them? They've managed it before. What changed?
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Because Democrats have a monopoly and "free stuff for doing nothing" and "all your problems are the fault of white people".

Democrats screw like rabbits and now outnumber the responsible faction of this country. Their lives only get drastically worse for it, but they're not bright enough to figure it out. It's one of those evolutionary eventualities. DNA mutations spawn and spread rapidly.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

Erod said:
Because Democrats have a monopoly and "free stuff for doing nothing" and "all your problems are the fault of white people".

Democrats screw like rabbits and now outnumber the responsible faction of this country. Their lives only get drastically worse for it, but they're not bright enough to figure it out. It's one of those evolutionary eventualities. DNA mutations spawn and spread rapidly.
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Anyone else immediately figure out what he meant by his second use of "democrats?" :lamo

Edit: I probably shouldn't make jokes. This guy is using the same language that always precedes genocide.
 
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Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

WillyPete said:
I'm also okay with gravity. It's how politics works, for all participants, always. Our founders lied to the solders that fought the Revolution about their back pay. <Link>
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I was looking for a more direct answer, but it looks like you are okay that Obama lied about the biggest social program in 50 years, and it may well have not been passed without his lies, though you don't seem to want to say it???


My main point is that misleading the electorate is the foundation of our election system. You seem to imply that the Democrats invented misleading campaigning in the 80's or something.
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If the voters are stupid, why does the GOP have so much trouble manipulating them? They've managed it before. What changed?
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Yes, the left seems to be more adept at it, and have the attitude that the ends justifies the means, whether you agree or not, they have decided for you.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

[SUB][/SUB]
Anthony60 said:
I was looking for a more direct answer, but it looks like you are okay that Obama lied about the biggest social program in 50 years, and it may well have not been passed without his lies, though you don't seem to want to say it???
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I believe it is a lie by omission that has been inflated.

If it was known years in advance, and is so compelling it would have prevented passage, why didn't GOP blow it up then? They've been throwing the kitchen sink at Obamacare for years.

I see this as just the next scene in the political theater. The GOP is (still) aggressively trying to turn public opinion against Obamacare however they can, with an eye on reaping benefits in 2014 and 2016. they would do the same whether there were Obamacare implementation problems or not.


Yes, the left seems to be more adept at it, and have the attitude that the ends justifies the means, whether you agree or not, they have decided for you.
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I actually think the GOP is better, as they seem to be less likely to be called out on their lies. As an example, Oliver North is a GOP hero today.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

WillyPete said:
[SUB][/SUB]
I believe it is a lie by omission that has been inflated.
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I guess we kind of agree on this, though I think it is quite a serious offense, not run of the mill political huffing and puffing.

If it was known years in advance, and is so compelling it would have prevented passage, why didn't GOP blow it up then? They've been throwing the kitchen sink at Obamacare for years.
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Oh, I think there were people expressing disbelief on what Obama was saying, but nobody listened. Now that, surprise, people have actually lost policies that they were told they could keep, it has hit them square in the head. And, now, (this is incredible), Obama was out there claiming that he said "...as long as the policies don't change..."! That is an even bolder lie than the first one!!! He obviously doesn't give a crap what we think, that much is clear.

I actually think the GOP is better, as they seem to be less likely to be called out on their lies. As an example, Oliver North is a GOP hero today.
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I would have to strongly disagree on that. I think the left is built on misleading and deception, they wouldn't win half the seats that they have if both parties just told the truth.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

CRUE CAB said:
Not a play on words, that is a Clinton move.
Obama straight up lied.
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That is how I see it.

This makes you call into question Obamas intelligence.

Does he not know what he says and does are video taped and recorded.

He blatantly said the Word Period. after his statement about keeping your plan.

The Period. puts an end to speculation after that.

He now says he didn't say that but he said something else.

He must have forgotten he was video taped many many times.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

CRUE CAB said:
Um, because clearly he lied. "you can keep your doctors and policy, period". Over and over. Now we are finding that isnt true in many cases.
Now if he had said "we are doing everything possible to craft this law so you can keep your coverage" that would be different.
He lied. Call it foaming at the mouth all day, but he lied.
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And apparently he knew it wasn't true at the time he said it.
 
Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

CRUE CAB said:
Its not what he said, and how he presented it.
And who's business is it what policy anyone has as long as they are happy with it.
I driver a 1999 Jimmy, it would be like telling me I MUST go buy a 2014 Tahoe. Whether I can afford it or not.
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It would be more like Obama telling you that you had to have full coverage plus a 1 million dollar umbrela on your 15 year old truck, because there are people out there who can't afford car insurance, and you have to pay for them.
 
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