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Thread: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passed"

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    Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Do you think you'd be even more worked up if he had said "You can keep your coverage and doctor forever, even if the doctor dies, the parent corporation goes bankrupt and the hospital is burned to the ground!"?
    Barack Obama has no control over if your doctor diesHe has no control over the parent coproation going bankruptHe has no control over the hospital burning to the groundHe has direct control over whether or not his administration chooses that plans need to be "grandfathered" in for you to keep them.he has direct control over what requirements a plan must meet to qualify to be "grandfathered"No, I have no issue with him not qualifying his statement for issues he has absolutely no control off of. Yes, I do have issue with him not qualifying his statement for issues caused by his own administrations cabinet agency writing of regulations. I'm sorry you can't apparently see the difference. If his HHS agency was going to require that plans be officially entered into a "grandfather" status, and that to enter into "grandfather" status they had to meet specific criteria from now until the end of time, then he shouldn't have said "if you like your plan you keep your plan. PERIOD." He should've said "If you like your plan you keep your plan, unless you got your plan or it changed in way we dislike after the point that hte law is/was passed".(Sorry for the formatting, my browser is being strange and not allowing returns to be shown properly :\)

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    Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Nope, no slithering out of this one.
    It's true that nothing in the law would prevent them from continuing with their coverage.

    BUT

    If the insurer discontinues the coverage for any reason (ACA-related or not,) then it won't be available.

    That's just context. I'll allow his original statement was inaccurate.

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    Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Barack Obama has no control over if your doctor diesHe has no control over the parent coproation going bankruptHe has no control over the hospital burning to the groundHe has direct control over whether or not his administration chooses that plans need to be "grandfathered" in for you to keep them.he has direct control over what requirements a plan must meet to qualify to be "grandfathered"No, I have no issue with him not qualifying his statement for issues he has absolutely no control off of. Yes, I do have issue with him not qualifying his statement for issues caused by his own administrations cabinet agency writing of regulations. I'm sorry you can't apparently see the difference. If his HHS agency was going to require that plans be officially entered into a "grandfather" status, and that to enter into "grandfather" status they had to meet specific criteria from now until the end of time, then he shouldn't have said "if you like your plan you keep your plan. PERIOD." He should've said "If you like your plan you keep your plan, unless you got your plan or it changed in way we dislike after the point that hte law is/was passed".(Sorry for the formatting, my browser is being strange and not allowing returns to be shown properly :\)
    I see the distinction you failed to make before.

    You can blame Obama if you want, but it was the insurances company's decision to end the plan, rather than make it compliant. The ACA didn't require them to end those plans, even if it was a reaction to the new regulations. Obama isn't in control of that either.

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    Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    I see the distinction you failed to make before.

    You can blame Obama if you want, but it was the insurances company's decision to end the plan, rather than make it compliant. The ACA didn't require them to end those plans, even if it was a reaction to the new regulations. Obama isn't in control of that either.

    False. The Insurers choice was in whether or not to participate in the exchanges. The contract they sign to participate in the exchange in California, for example, forced them to agree to terminate all non-ACA compliant plans by 12/31/2013.

    So their only real choice was whether or not to participate in the exchanges... but since they HAD to participate in the exchanges by 1/1/2015 or be out of business it was not exactly a choice.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    False. The Insurers choice was in whether or not to participate in the exchanges. The contract they sign to participate in the exchange in California, for example, forced them to agree to terminate all non-ACA compliant plans by 12/31/2013.
    The insurance companies aren't "forced" to join the exchange and people can still buy grandfathered insurance policies directly from the company if they want to and if the company wants to sell them.

    So their only real choice was whether or not to participate in the exchanges... but since they HAD to participate in the exchanges by 1/1/2015 or be out of business it was not exactly a choice.
    No, the insurance companies do not have to participate in the exchanges. They sign the contract of their own free will because they agreed to the terms, just like you agreed to the terms of DP in order to participate on the forum.

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    Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I don't understand how anyone is surprised about this. One of the main points about the ACA was raising the standards of healthcare plans to a workable minimum. Obviously, some existing plans do not meet these criteria. So, some plans are going away. If insurance companies are attempting to exploit loopholes to keep the people who had previously been on these plans from getting better ones, or are exploiting the situation to try to charge these people more, then that is definitely a problem. But ensuring that no one was stuck with a sub-par plan was part of the ACA from the beginning. So, how is this a surprise?
    Entirely irrelevant to the point of the matter.

    Obama made an unequivocal promise about 30 separate times.

    He now claims he said something different, something he most definitely did not say.

    That it should be a surprise to no one only makes his ~30 previous statements all the more knowingly dishonest, unless you'd like to claim that he didn't know something which, according to you, should have been obvious to everyone.
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    Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The insurance companies aren't "forced" to join the exchange and people can still buy grandfathered insurance policies directly from the company if they want to and if the company wants to sell them.
    False and False. The insurance companies will not be able to sell non-ACA policies in 2015, and the only "grandfathered" plans by the way the policy is written are policies that already met the ACA regulations before the law went into effect. In other words the Grandfather rule is worthless.

    No, the insurance companies do not have to participate in the exchanges. They sign the contract of their own free will because they agreed to the terms, just like you agreed to the terms of DP in order to participate on the forum.
    You are really still running with this lie?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    False and False. The insurance companies will not be able to sell non-ACA policies in 2015, and the only "grandfathered" plans by the way the policy is written are policies that already met the ACA regulations before the law went into effect. In other words the Grandfather rule is worthless.



    You are really still running with this lie?
    Any lie that sells is a good lie to the political left. They actually differentiate between perceived good lies and bad lies. It's amazing.

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    Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Because casual folks that don't research a ton into politics or laws or don't have a fully working understanding of how regulations work heard one of the dozens of times Barack Obama stated unequivocably, broadly, and without any wiggle room or conditions that "If you like your healthcare plan, you get to keep your healthcare plan".....and now there's clear evidence that such a statement, in such stark and absolute terms such as "period" or "guaranteed", was completely false and that's causing people to scratch their heads. Especially since this was the man that was elected primarily and largely based off a campaign message of "Change" to "politics as usual" and to the way washington works and to partisan politics and to Bush era tactics and they're now being told that they should just ignore it because "hey, politicians do this kind of thing".
    The same people who don't do research listen to the news all the time? I don't see how anyone could hear that standards for health insurance policies are changing and not understand that some policies won't make the cut. Now, if there are people who had these policies who are not being upgraded to those that DO meet the standards, or are being milked for more money to get their policies to meet those standards, then that's a problem. But you can't hang that on the president alone. That's on the insurance companies that were screwing those people over then and are continuing to screw people over now. That the president couldn't wave a magic wand and fix everything in one fell swoop doesn't diminish the attempt.

    Frankly, I don't care what he said or what he promised. I care what he delivered, and if it wasn't what we wanted, I care why it fell short.
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    Re: Obama: "What We Said Was You Can Keep It If It Hasn't Changed Since The Law Passe

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    Maybe for you and me it would be hard, but it's a grand tradition in American politics.

    Is the GOP led by professional politicians or not?
    Are you saying that it's a "grand tradition", so you are okay with it and will accept it, no matter what the level?
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
    "I don't want a piece of you... I want the whole thing!" -- Bob Barker

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