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Obamacare Subsidies

mac said:
How do you not know? At the end of the year, you get a little piece of paper that tells you how much you made that year. Have you never had a job?
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You're falling all over yourself in a rush to be a smart aleck.

Go read the entire conversation between cpwill and myself.
 
soot said:
You're falling all over yourself in a rush to be a smart aleck.

Go read the entire conversation between cpwill and myself.
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That doesn't help your case. Why would it be calculated any different then any other tax break? Because they're spinning it as a subsidy?
 
mac said:
That doesn't help your case. Why would it be calculated any different then any other tax break? Because they're spinning it as a subsidy?
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:confused: most tax breaks I know of are calculated on previous year. EITC, for example.
 
mac said:
It's an income tax break designed to offset the cost of the premiums. You pay the premiums for 12 months and get some of it back in your tax return. So, basically, you suck it up 12 months a year.
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That would expose people to how much their plans actually cost, push our low-income people deeply into debt, and basically leave Democrats going in to 2014 election facing not so much a head wind as a head tsunami. I can't offhand think of a single modification of the ACA's structure that would be more likely to cost Democrats the Senate. I really have a hard time believing that they could be that stupid.
 
apdst said:
That's great...until someone figures out how to write off the penalty.
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The penalty wont apply to very many people in the first place, so I wouldn't worry about it. This "mandate" that is "forcing" you to buy a product is actually pretty toothless.
 
cpwill said:
:confused: most tax breaks I know of are calculated on previous year. EITC, for example.
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I am not sure, but I have heard that the tax breaks are subject to revision if your income changed during the year.
 
cpwill said:
:confused: most tax breaks I know of are calculated on previous year. EITC, for example.
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No, they're calculated on present year. You have a kid this year you claim it on the taxes. You install energy efficient stuff, you claim it this year. Remember, your claim follows the year in question. So, perhaps that is what is making you think of it as last year. The claim you will be filling for next time is 2013, for things that occurred in 2013, and income you received in 2013....and the return is your 2013 taxes.
 
jimbo said:
I am not sure, but I have heard that the tax breaks are subject to revision if your income changed during the year.
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How would that information be captured? If your income goes down for whatever reason and now you rate a subsidy, but enrollment is over... do they even have a plan for that?
 
cpwill said:
That would expose people to how much their plans actually cost, push our low-income people deeply into debt, and basically leave Democrats going in to 2014 election facing not so much a head wind as a head tsunami. I can't offhand think of a single modification of the ACA's structure that would be more likely to cost Democrats the Senate. I really have a hard time believing that they could be that stupid.
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That's why they are calling it a subsidy instead of a tax break. By the time people that don't understand realize what happened....it will be to late. :shrug:

I'm absolutely certain the majority of Obamacare fans think they're getting a check in the mail every month to pay their HC premiums.
 
mac said:
No, they're calculated on present year. You have a kid this year you claim it on the taxes.
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Incorrect. For example, when I pay taxes in April of 2014 for the year of 2013, I will claim the kid that was born in 2013. I was not able to claim her during the year to get back a prorated piece for the taxes I paid in April of 2013, I have to wait and then get the money when I put in the information from the previous year.

You install energy efficient stuff, you claim it this year. Remember, your claim follows the year in question. So, perhaps that is what is making you think of it as last year. The claim you will be filling for next time is 2013, for things that occurred in 2013, and income you received in 2013....and the return is your 2013 taxes.
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Same-Same for all this. All this is post-year data. You can't claim it until the year is over.
 
mac said:
That's why they are calling it a subsidy instead of a tax break. By the time people that don't understand realize what happened....it will be to late. :shrug:

I'm absolutely certain the majority of Obamacare fans think they're getting a check in the mail every month to pay their HC premiums.
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I understood it was supposed to go directly to the insurance companies.

If they are really going to make these people pay for a full year up front without the subsidy.... they are going to lose in a wave election that will make 2010 look like a friggin pleasant day at the beach.
 
cpwill said:
I understood it was supposed to go directly to the insurance companies.

If they are really going to make these people pay for a full year up front without the subsidy.... they are going to lose in a wave election that will make 2010 look like a friggin pleasant day at the beach.
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You're correct, the subsidy goes to the insurance company.
 
soot said:
You clearly have no interest in discussing this seriously, do you?



A family of four making $94,200 is at 400% of the federal poverty level and as such will qualify for a premium subsidy on the exchange.

A family of five can be earning up to $110,280 and qualify for a subsidy.

A family of three can earn up to $78,120 and receive a subsidy.

An individual earning just under $46,000 will qualify.
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Sure I want to discuss it. So, let's go back to my original question: how do you give a tax credit to someone that doesn't pay taxes. And, yes, people who don't pay ANY Federal income taxes will be subsidized.
 
apdst said:
Sure I want to discuss it. So, let's go back to my original question: how do you give a tax credit to someone that doesn't pay taxes. And, yes, people who don't pay ANY Federal income taxes will be subsidized.
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It's a refundable credit. Same as the EITC. You give it (above) to the insurance company.
 
cpwill said:
How would that information be captured? If your income goes down for whatever reason and now you rate a subsidy, but enrollment is over... do they even have a plan for that?
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I'm not sure, but I think that the context was that if you received more subsidy than you were entitled to, you must give it back. That could easily be determined by comparing two years tax filings.
 
Deuce said:
The penalty wont apply to very many people in the first place, so I wouldn't worry about it. This "mandate" that is "forcing" you to buy a product is actually pretty toothless.
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It will grow teeth, when too many people choose the fine over the insurance plan.
 
cpwill said:
It's a refundable credit. Same as the EITC. You give it (above) to the insurance company.
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People are going to actually spend that money on insurance? That's already a cluster ****...lol!
 
jimbo said:
I'm not sure, but I think that the context was that if you received more subsidy than you were entitled to, you must give it back. That could easily be determined by comparing two years tax filings.
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So what happens to the guy who loses his job in July, replaces it with a lower-paid job in August, and now needs the subsidies for the incredibly high -priced insurance that he had to buy, but now can't afford?
 
apdst said:
People are going to actually spend that money on insurance? That's already a cluster ****...lol!
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:) I think the government sends it. I'm sure an organization as efficient as the HHS won't screw that up :mrgreen:
 
cpwill said:
:) I think the government sends it. I'm sure an organization as efficient as the HHS won't screw that up :mrgreen:
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I know, right!...lol!
 
(POST #48)
mac said:
It's an income tax break designed to offset the cost of the premiums. You pay the premiums for 12 months and get some of it back in your tax return. So, basically, you suck it up 12 months a year.
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Totally incorrect.

The ACA subsidy is to consist of lower premiums. See link:

Understanding the ACA Subsidies

(from link):
To help lower and some middle income families pay for health insurance, the Affordable Care Act limits the amount of money the family would have to spend on premiums for a Silver Plan (we will get to this later) based upon a percentage of income. The law does this by capping the amount that each family will pay themselves depending on where they fall in relation to the FPL (Federal Poverty Level)… Higher income households will have a higher cap as a percentage of income.
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Hey mac, WTF do you do when you post something on this board?-
just blather out any old goddam thing that pops into your head
as long as it is in line with your prejudices?
 
apdst said:
It will grow teeth, when too many people choose the fine over the insurance plan.
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Let me know when the GOP house votes to increase the penalties.
 
cpwill said:
Incorrect. For example, when I pay taxes in April of 2014 for the year of 2013, I will claim the kid that was born in 2013. I was not able to claim her during the year to get back a prorated piece for the taxes I paid in April of 2013, I have to wait and then get the money when I put in the information from the previous year.
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That's because you are filing a 2013 tax return. The 2013 year does not extend beyond 2013. :shrug: Remember, you are filing a 2013 tax return for the year ending Dec 31...2013 by april of 2014. You are not filing a 2014 tax return.

Same-Same for all this. All this is post-year data. You can't claim it until the year is over.
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It's still that years return...
 
cpwill said:
I understood it was supposed to go directly to the insurance companies.
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That's not what I understand it to be. You pay the premium, the USG refunds a portion of your premium, to you, as a tax break in your return.

If they are really going to make these people pay for a full year up front without the subsidy.... they are going to lose in a wave election that will make 2010 look like a friggin pleasant day at the beach.
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It's not a full year up front, it's a monthly premium. Still, people not used to paying a premium, because they can't afford to, are going to have trouble paying it regardless of the year end refund.
 
USViking said:
(POST #48)


Totally incorrect.

The ACA subsidy is to consist of lower premiums. See link:

Understanding the ACA Subsidies

(from link):


Hey mac, WTF do you do when you post something on this board?-
just blather out any old goddam thing that pops into your head
as long as it is in line with your prejudices?
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Lower premiums as compared to what? and, where does it say how the "subsidy" is delivered? Hmm?

and....where is the person that wasn't paying a premium (because they couldn't afford it) going to get the $193 a month to pay it now?
 
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