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Thread: Obamacare Subsidies

  1. #31
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    Re: Obamacare Subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Gipper.

    : The thing most puzzling to me is the attitude of those in DC, who seem to think that things can go on as they are indefinitely. They seem to think they will not be part of what's heading our way...have they established a colony on Mars or something? What good is it to amass huge sums of money if said money is worthless at some point? There are too many historical examples, to suit me, of what things could be like in the near future. The book that was made into a movie "The Road" was one of the scariest I have ever read, only because the scenario is way too possible!
    Hi Polgie.

    The real problem is everywhere. Hell, we the people carry much of the responsibility because, as a collective, we're ignorant and oblivious to the fact that we can't keep going like this, and that we'll be forced to take a more Darwinian stance on fiscal issues to ensure our continued existence. It's not "humane" to admit that some eggs will be lost when making the American omelet, but we don't want to hear it.

    Social welfare is a genie in a bottle. Once opened, she doesn't want to get forced back in. You have people abusing the dole for so long that they'll fight tooth and nail when you want to curb back, even if it's for the greater good.

    As some wise men said - a government big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away.

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    Re: Obamacare Subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Hi Polgie.

    The real problem is everywhere. Hell, we the people carry much of the responsibility because, as a collective, we're ignorant and oblivious to the fact that we can't keep going like this, and that we'll be forced to take a more Darwinian stance on fiscal issues to ensure our continued existence. It's not "humane" to admit that some eggs will be lost when making the American omelet, but we don't want to hear it.

    Social welfare is a genie in a bottle. Once opened, she doesn't want to get forced back in. You have people abusing the dole for so long that they'll fight tooth and nail when you want to curb back, even if it's for the greater good.

    As some wise men said - a government big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away.
    : The ironic thing is that the "guy on the street" seems to better understand what is happening than the decision makers sitting on their thrones in the ivory towers in DC, making the laws that they exempt themselves from. The problem as I see it is that the average person who disagrees with DC has no leader to follow, and doesn't understand how DC works well enough to do anything except to be puzzled, and then angry! Where are the warriors?

  3. #33
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    Re: Obamacare Subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Did I say that? Are you sure you want to be like that? You know damn good and well what I'm talking about.
    Did you say that?

    I don't know.

    That's why I asked you.

    You keep insisting that people who will benefit from ACA tax credits pay no income taxes.

    And to some extent, if we're talking about effective tax rates, I agree with you.

    On the bottom end there ARE people who, if they're not already net recipients of tax benefits currently WILL become such. These ACA credits will drop them to the point where they aren't paying an effective tax.

    But there's a large number of people who will benefit from tax credits under the ACA program who do pay taxes and who will continue to pay taxes, just less of them.

    And I don't want to lump them in with Mitt Romney's nearly mythical "47%".

    That "47%" that pays no taxes, as we know, includes the indigent, those on welfare, children and retirees, veterans' pension recipients, and a lot more.

    Essentially, a whole bunch of people who don't work, and who aren't even required to pay income tax, to begin with.

    Those people are already benefiting from Medicare, Medicaid, or the VA healthcare system and aren't even candidates for healthcare on the ACA exchanges.

    When we start talking ONLY about people who are working jobs, paying some income tax, and qualified for ACA health insurance plans that "47%" number drops precipitously.

    I think there's a good chance that MOST people who benefit under the ACA tax credits are going to be people who currently are paying income taxes, both to the extent that they're having taxes deducted from their paycheck and to the extent that they're currently net payers of tax.

    So I think you're right that there are some Americans who "don't pay taxes", but I don't know how many of them, if any of them, can be included here.

    Do you?

    Can you prove to me that some large percentage of Americans are non-tax payers who are going to get MORE back from the government as a result of this?

    If so, please do.

    You're the one whose always enamored with posting links.

    Post some links that prove what you're saying.

    Thanks.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  4. #34
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    Re: Obamacare Subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, every spring they get that money back. So, no, they don't pay taxes.
    Right. They simply loan the money to the government without interest unless they are smart enough to increase their payroll exemptions to reduce it.

  5. #35
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    Re: Obamacare Subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Did you say that?

    I don't know.

    That's why I asked you.

    You keep insisting that people who will benefit from ACA tax credits pay no income taxes.

    And to some extent, if we're talking about effective tax rates, I agree with you.

    On the bottom end there ARE people who, if they're not already net recipients of tax benefits currently WILL become such. These ACA credits will drop them to the point where they aren't paying an effective tax.

    But there's a large number of people who will benefit from tax credits under the ACA program who do pay taxes and who will continue to pay taxes, just less of them.

    And I don't want to lump them in with Mitt Romney's nearly mythical "47%".

    That "47%" that pays no taxes, as we know, includes the indigent, those on welfare, children and retirees, veterans' pension recipients, and a lot more.

    Essentially, a whole bunch of people who don't work, and who aren't even required to pay income tax, to begin with.

    Those people are already benefiting from Medicare, Medicaid, or the VA healthcare system and aren't even candidates for healthcare on the ACA exchanges.

    When we start talking ONLY about people who are working jobs, paying some income tax, and qualified for ACA health insurance plans that "47%" number drops precipitously.

    I think there's a good chance that MOST people who benefit under the ACA tax credits are going to be people who currently are paying income taxes, both to the extent that they're having taxes deducted from their paycheck and to the extent that they're currently net payers of tax.

    So I think you're right that there are some Americans who "don't pay taxes", but I don't know how many of them, if any of them, can be included here.

    Do you?

    Can you prove to me that some large percentage of Americans are non-tax payers who are going to get MORE back from the government as a result of this?

    If so, please do.

    You're the one whose always enamored with posting links.

    Post some links that prove what you're saying.

    Thanks.
    Anyone that qualifies for Obamacare susidies doesn't pay taxes. A family making 93 grand won't get a subsidy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #36
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    Re: Obamacare Subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Right. They simply loan the money to the government without interest unless they are smart enough to increase their payroll exemptions to reduce it.
    What's going to be funny, is when the government starts taking the subsidy out of their tax tefund.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #37
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    Re: Obamacare Subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Anyone that qualifies for Obamacare susidies doesn't pay taxes.
    You clearly have no interest in discussing this seriously, do you?

    A family making 93 grand won't get a subsidy.
    A family of four making $94,200 is at 400% of the federal poverty level and as such will qualify for a premium subsidy on the exchange.

    A family of five can be earning up to $110,280 and qualify for a subsidy.

    A family of three can earn up to $78,120 and receive a subsidy.

    An individual earning just under $46,000 will qualify.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  8. #38
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    Re: Obamacare Subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Can somebody please explain what these subsidies are supposed to do.

    It is my understanding that the subsidies will be given to people that can prove that they don't make enough money, whatever the cutoff is to pay for the premiums.

    Is the subsidy to pay for the premiums or something else?

    If the subsidy is to pay for the premiums, how will the person pay for the co-pays and the high out of pocket expenses all policy holders must pay before the insurance kicks in?

    They have already proven they don't make enough to pay the premuims ontheir own.

    I am a little confused on this.
    That is mostly correct. The subsidies are given to people who claim they don't make enough money, that cutoff being 400% of the poverty line for your family. The provision to check people to make sure that they were honest about their financial situation was delayed for a year by the Administration.

  9. #39
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    Re: Obamacare Subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    You clearly have no interest in discussing this seriously, do you?

    A family of four making $94,200 is at 400% of the federal poverty level and as such will qualify for a premium subsidy on the exchange.

    A family of five can be earning up to $110,280 and qualify for a subsidy.

    A family of three can earn up to $78,120 and receive a subsidy.

    An individual earning just under $46,000 will qualify.
    Is that pre-tax, adjusted, what?

  10. #40
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    Re: Obamacare Subsidies

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    Actually, that is not entirely correct. Taxpayers cannot even come close to paying the bills we already have, so the money must be borrowed. Your grandkids will be stuck with the bills.

    Taxes like the medical device tax make even less sense. Government imposes a tax on healthcare devices, which will drive up the cost, which will drive up the cost of healthcare, which the government will then subsidize.
    in the 80's we learned our tax dollars are enough to pay the interest on the debt and that is about it.

    so the subsidies are coming from deficit spending, not taxes.

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