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Thread: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

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    Re: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    You mean by reiterating what is being widely reported in popular news sources? I'm not sure attacking points that you are seemingly ignorent on really casrts you as some uninterested observer here. For me, I don't put much stock in the Benghazi attacks, and have said as much already. But I am not so ideological that I am going to doscount any and all possibility that the story does have legs.
    But you're ideological enough to come to conclusions about who was doing what, regardless of how many thousands of stories are flying around, all quoting their retired and anonymous sources.

    lol, Obama is a consumate politician and has made his career from engaging in dirty politics.
    Irrelevant rant.


    The Birther nonsense existing does not necessitate any and all criticism of this administration is bogus. Your argument is just silly
    With as little solid information as you have available to you concluding ill will on Hillary and Obama's part to the extent you have is conspiracy theory hysteria. All you have is a thousand stories of he said/she said, conjecture and theories by one story after another quoting retired and anonymous stories that you're picking out of the air to weave a story. Here's a free tip: when your conspiracy theory slowly expands to include everybody, their pet, their pets' friends and those friends' friends, it's time to lay off the X-Files.

    there could be multiple reasons why survivors haven
    t come forward and even multiple reasons why agencies like the state department and the CIA are pressuring them not to(clearly the CIA has interests in maintaining secrecy beyond political interests). Only one of those reasons are political.
    Yes, there could be multiple reasons why they haven't come forward. I have an imagination too, but am not willing to automatically conclude that. So when you come to the knee-jerk assumption of it being "pressure from the CIA, state department, etc.", you lose the credibility to then tell me:

    It's not my problem that you have a knee-jerk and ideologically monolithic response to such things.

    Your links don't support your claims. I particularly enjoyed the second one, though. Wait, the CIA is trying to keep secrets and prevent leaks to the media? Shut...up!

  2. #102
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    Re: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    But you're ideological enough to come to conclusions about who was doing what, regardless of how many thousands of stories are flying around, all quoting their retired and anonymous sources.
    Actually what I did was posit possible scenarios that would prevent them from coming forward in response to your question "what is stopping them from coming forward?"

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062504176

    Irrelevant rant.
    How can it be an irrelevant rant when it's directly addressing a premise you raised?


    With as little solid information as you have available to you concluding ill will on Hillary and Obama's part to the extent you have is conspiracy theory hysteria.
    Actually I was continually raised skepticism towards the benghazzi charges in this thread. What I challenged was your *assurance* that there was nothing to them. See, while I have and maintain my doubts about the issue being anything more than right wing noise, I maintain an open mind given the contradictory evidence that remains.

    see: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062504172


    Here's a free tip: when your conspiracy theory slowly expands to include everybody, their pet, their pets' friends and those friends' friends, it's time to lay off the X-Files.
    The evidence I cited involves the CIA, an organization known for maintaining secrecy and someone from the CIA attempting to break that secrecy. That is hardly "everybody", nor does it require something unprecedented.

    Yes, there could be multiple reasons why they haven't come forward. I have an imagination too, but am not willing to automatically conclude that.
    The only person "automatically concluding" anything here seems to be you, mate. So i am unsure on what basis you are trying to make the above criticism


    Your links don't support your claims. I particularly enjoyed the second one, though. Wait, the CIA is trying to keep secrets and prevent leaks to the media?
    So my links do not support my claim that the CIA is trying to maintain secrecy around the issue but that secrecy could be due to a number of different motivations, like you just asserted above? Again, it's obvious you are having some type of frantic knee-jerk reaction here. I suggest you take a breather and try to address what people write, as opposed to simply throwing a tantrum

  3. #103
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    Re: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Actually what I did was posit possible scenarios that would prevent them from coming forward in response to your question "what is stopping them from coming forward?"

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062504176
    And all those possible scenarios involve pressure from government institutions (CIA, state department, etc). But when I suggest that maybe they just don't want to be involved in a giant political media cluster**** I'm the ideologue? Right.



    How can it be an irrelevant rant when it's directly addressing a premise you raised?
    All I said was that Obama might be served well by encouraging the survivors to come forward based on the fact that that's actually worked well in the past, and for some reason you took that as an opening to go on an anti-Chicago-politics rant.


    Actually I was continually raised skepticism towards the benghazzi charges in this thread. What I challenged was your *assurance* that there was nothing to them. See, while I have and maintain my doubts about the issue being anything more than right wing noise, I maintain an open mind given the contradictory evidence that remains.

    see: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062504172
    WTF?? When did I give an assurance that there was nothing to the charges?


    The evidence I cited involves the CIA, an organization known for maintaining secrecy and someone from the CIA attempting to break that secrecy. That is hardly "everybody", nor does it require something unprecedented.



    The only person "automatically concluding" anything here seems to be you, mate. So i am unsure on what basis you are trying to make the above criticism
    The only person concluding that I'm concluding anything regarding full facts of the Benghazi matter is you. All I know is that Benghazi was a tragedy, that there was probably bad communication in the lines from bottom to top, and that Obama royally fubarred the post crisis dialogue and management. If you believe that I've automatically exonerated anybody here then that's all in your head.


    So my links do not support my claim that the CIA is trying to maintain secrecy around the issue but that secrecy could be due to a number of different motivations, like you just asserted above? Again, it's obvious you are having some type of frantic knee-jerk reaction here. I suggest you take a breather and try to address what people write, as opposed to simply throwing a tantrum
    Before criticizing me for not reading it might do you well to take your own advice. I asked what was preventing the survivors from coming forward and you link to stories about the CIA making sure their employees don't leak stories to the press, which, as you might see, doesn't actually address my question.

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    Re: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    And all those possible scenarios involve pressure from government institutions (CIA, state department, etc). But when I suggest that maybe they just don't want to be involved in a giant political media cluster**** I'm the ideologue? Right.
    No, your an ideologue for loosing your **** over someone pointing to a potential alternative explanation to what ***YOU ASSERTED AS A CERTAINTY*** ...


    All I said was that Obama might be served well by encouraging the survivors to come forward based on the fact that that's actually worked well in the past, and for some reason you took that as an opening to go on an anti-Chicago-politics rant.
    What are you even talking about? You tried to cast Obama as some political golden boy who would never sully his hands with dirty politics unless forced into such a position by his opposition. I pointed out how this was nothing more than fanboy nonsense


    WTF?? When did I give an assurance that there was nothing to the charges?
    In the post I provided you a direct link to


    The only person concluding that I'm concluding anything regarding full facts of the Benghazi matter is you. All I know is that Benghazi was a tragedy, that there was probably bad communication in the lines from bottom to top, and that Obama royally fubarred the post crisis dialogue and management. If you believe that I've automatically exonerated anybody here then that's all in your head.
    Or I simply read what you wrote and your response to the suggestion that there were alternative explanations ...


    Before criticizing me for not reading it might do you well to take your own advice. I asked what was preventing the survivors from coming forward and you link to stories about the CIA making sure their employees don't leak stories to the press, which, as you might see, doesn't actually address my question.
    It directly addressed your question, homie

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    Re: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No, your an ideologue for loosing your **** over someone pointing to a potential alternative explanation to what ***YOU ASSERTED AS A CERTAINTY*** ...
    The notion that I "lost my ****," or that my explanation was a certainty is all in your head.

    What are you even talking about? You tried to cast Obama as some political golden boy who would never sully his hands with dirty politics unless forced into such a position by his opposition. I pointed out how this was nothing more than fanboy nonsense
    Obama trying to be above the birtherism was a good example of him attempting to play clean. Whatever you may think of him in any other regard or situation, that was a valid example of him actually being a "political golden boy."


    In the post I provided you a direct link to
    I don't have to read that link to know I never said that it was certain there was nothing to any of the charges, because I don't believe that. How could I? Remember when I told you you couldn't really know anything with the thousands of stories flying around, all quoting their own retired and anonymous sources? Well, that applies to me as well and I'm perfectly aware of that.


    Or I simply read what you wrote and your response to the suggestion that there were alternative explanations ...
    Explanation. Singular. You're sticking to the one explanation which is that the survivors are being pressured by insidious institutions. It's funny you can't see how your ideology is leading you to that one specific conclusion. BTW, I accept that as an alternative. It just also makes a lot of sense that maybe they're not coming forward because the whole story erupted into a giant noisy stupid mess, and why drag yourself and your family into that nonsense?


    It directly addressed your question, homie
    My question asked why the survivors wouldn't come forward, and you linked to an irrelevant article about the CIA controlling leaks. How that is answering my question is beyond me.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 11-06-13 at 12:44 AM.

  6. #106
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    Re: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Explanation. Singular. You're sticking to the one explanation which is that the survivors are being pressured by insidious institutions. It's funny you can't see how your ideology is leading you to that one specific conclusion.
    lol, I gave you a link to a post in this very thread where I express clear skepticism that there was anything to the story, long before you had your fan-boy tantrum. So clearly the above assertion makes absolutely no sense. What I did was raise it as a possibility, in spite of your assurd position that it couldn't be anything but right wing noise.

    My position is one of skepticism, but a willingness to *consider* alternative explanations. You're is the one that is ideological and firm.

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    Re: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    lol, I gave you a link to a post in this very thread where I express clear skepticism that there was anything to the story, long before you had your fan-boy tantrum. So clearly the above assertion makes absolutely no sense. What I did was raise it as a possibility, in spite of your assurd position that it couldn't be anything but right wing noise.

    My position is one of skepticism, but a willingness to *consider* alternative explanations. You're is the one that is ideological and firm.
    Right. Because just the possibility that somebody wouldn't come forward because they don't want to expose themselves and their families to a stupid media frenzy is insane partisan hackery.

    Oy vey...

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    Re: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Right. Because just the possibility that somebody wouldn't come forward because they don't want to expose themselves and their families to a stupid media frenzy is insane partisan hackery.

    Oy vey...
    no, you throwing the tantrum over someone pointing to an alternative theory they even stated they don't give much credence to is ...

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    Re: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    no, you throwing the tantrum over someone pointing to an alternative theory they even stated they don't give much credence to is ...
    All in your head, big guy.

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    Re: Why is Hillary Clinton's popularity sliding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    All in your head, big guy.
    i wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Pressure from the CIA, state department, etc. Such accusations are flying pretty freely in the press and come from seemingly credible sources ...
    your response was:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Trust me, if the survivors come forward and don't provide dirt on Obama and Clinton then "Obama got to them." Dr. Chuckles already poisoned that particular well in post 74. To be honest, it probably wouldn't hurt in the long run if they were encouraged to come forward. Obama has tried taking the high road on matters like this before and when he finally got down from his pedestal is has actually helped him. The birth certificate issue is a good example of this.

    I still don't blame the survivors for not wanting to drag themselves and their families in front of the media over this.

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