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Thread: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health Plan

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Of course: once you establish a system of taking hostages with impunity, why keep ransom low?



    Your faith is almost moving. What is virtually certain to happen, however, is the premiums staying where they are (the over-optimistic projections of enrollment had been factored in already) - and rising again next year (nothing is being done about the artificial price inflation on in the actual health care markets - caused in large part by the parasitic intermediaries like these "insurance" companies).
    If premiums stay where they are, we would be way ahead of where we were going. Premiums have risen steadily as long as I can remember.
    Tell me ...Would you rather have regulated, or un-regulated parasites?
    If the ACA did nothing else but implement the regulations and pull in the reigns on the immoral, parasitic health insurance industry it would still be a good law.
    There are many provisions in the ACA that work to keep hospital costs down through insurance company regulation.
    Last edited by Buck Ewer; 10-31-13 at 02:39 PM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Tell me ...Would you rather have regulated, or un-regulated parasites?.
    The problem is, they are being "regulated" by another bunch of parasites. The real health care market (of actual medical goods and services, not insurance policies) is being cornered by the twin parasitic intermediaries - the government and the "insurance" (which is not insurance at all, if you think about it) companies. And the Obamacare pours new layers of cement on this setup.

    Free-market solutions (which I would prefer) survive only on the margins (like those concierge medicine shops). A simple and workable socialist solution (which I would accept, as a lesser evil) is nowhere in sight.

    "Oh, but isn't this better than what we had before?". No - it isn't. And that's the whole point: it is EVEN worse, and more and more people are waking up to this realization.

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    The problem is, they are being "regulated" by another bunch of parasites. The real health care market (of actual medical goods and services, not insurance policies) is being cornered by the twin parasitic intermediaries - the government and the "insurance" (which is not insurance at all, if you think about it) companies. And the Obamacare pours new layers of cement on this setup.

    Free-market solutions (which I would prefer) survive only on the margins (like those concierge medicine shops). A simple and workable socialist solution (which I would accept, as a lesser evil) is nowhere in sight.

    "Oh, but isn't this better than what we had before?". No - it isn't. And that's the whole point: it is EVEN worse, and more and more people are waking up to this realization.
    The un-regulated "free market solutions" are what put the insurer/big pharma cabal in charge of deciding what we pay to stay healthy in the first place. Not to mention insurance policy corporate boards deciding who lives and who dies based on "insurability".
    Government regulation can only help Americans IMHO.
    But then you are a libertarian...you don't really trust anyone.

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    The un-regulated "free market solutions" are what put the insurer/big pharma cabal in charge of deciding what we pay to stay healthy in the first place. Not to mention insurance policy corporate boards deciding who lives and who dies based on "insurability".
    Government regulation can only help Americans IMHO.
    But then you are a libertarian...you don't really trust anyone.
    What can I say?

    You have no idea what the "free market" means - obviously. I guess, there's no tax on ignorance.

    Your robotic allegiance to the "government regulation" - even when it means, in reality, an open collusion of the authoritarian State with the worst (by your own definitions) elements of the "market" - prevents you from ever doubting any most obvious lie - as long as it is delivered with an appropriate ideological salad dressing.

    Be my guest. I (the real-life person behind the "Cyrylek" handle) will survive. Because, contrary to what you say, I have a lot of people I do actually trust - my friends, my family, my current and former co-workers, my former employers and former employees...

    And you know what this trust is based upon, in a very large part?

    It may shock you, but it is based on the peculiar notion that THEY - all those other people in my life - have the right to decide for themselves what is good/important/right for them - not me.

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Unless many of the people joining the risk pool are high-risk individuals or people with pre-existing conditions. You know, the type of people who couldn't get insurance before who are clamoring for Obamacare. In order for costs to even come close to staying level, you need a huge influx of young people to overpay on their premiums. Yes, I said overpay because the great majority of young people don't need comprehensive health insurance - catastrophic policies are the more economical (read: better and more appropriate) policy for them. Just because the group is larger doesn't mean costs will always be smaller. If you have a small group of healthy, young, low-risk individuals, they will have smaller premiums than a large group with a good deal of older, high-risk individuals with pre-existing conditions.

    The way things are currently going, there is not going to be near enough healthy young people willing to sign up to overpay for insurance they don't need/can't afford. Many will elect to pay the fine, causing rates to go up and the system to crash.
    Good post, and not to mention that insurance companies have risk analytics monitoring their groups almost by the minute as to not run into negative profit. Obama, well, shoot, offering policies that make sense, even minimum standards like not requiring men to carry premiums that have OBGYN's, or female specific health issues, and conversely having women carry male specific health insurance. I mean, when all these really smart people (Lawyers NOT real problem solvers) hovered around the table hashing this out, did it ever occur to any of them that this was a really, really bad idea on so many levels? Not only does it not make ANY sense, it's so absurd that even the stupid American voter can look at it and say, "really" they did this?

    Perhaps the dumbest piece of legislation I have EVER seen in my entire life.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    First, Health care is not a right.
    Second, why should I have to pay a fine for not signing up?
    Screw obama and his health care plan.

  7. #37
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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Have you looked on the exchanges to take advantage of the group rates? Or are you so determined to be independent that you insist on buying your policy privately?
    If you want to pay more by buying a private policy the insurance companies won't stop you.
    Maybe not. But Obamacare will definitely make you pay for being independent. Speaking of which...why do you think independence is a BAD thing? Why do you want everyone to suck off the governments teet?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Sure you could try the "concierge " approach and pay the tax...but know this. The individual mandate tax goes up each year you do not have a real policy and as more people join the exchanges the policy premiums WILL go down. Your 35% increase is not etched in stone. There are still five months to go before prices are settled.
    So you either get insurance through the exchange or get fined so much that you loose your house. Good Job!
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Yeah ... Pretty disgusting of me to let you know that you can get a better product for the same or less money huh?
    I know enough about the lives of others to know that most would like a better deal...
    Maybe not you Huh?
    Do you know anybody that has gotten a plan for the same or less money?

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    You are missing the simple fact the law is flawed and is suited to basically one policy fits all. It is forceing a lot of people to buy policies with a lot of things in them they do not want or need. Just following the Democratic mantra on this that it is a panecea for all is wrong just as following or believing everything in it is bad per the Republicans. The truth probably lies in the middle. It will help some people and hurt some people. But one thing is certain, it will become a very inefficinet run program just like every other program run out of Washington.

    I do think this program, the ACA has the ability to be a game changer on the political scene depending how it effects most people. How it effects those who already had insurance, whether that effect is good or bad. If the effect of this law is good for most Americans, it could give the Democrats another run in politics like they had from 1932 to 1952 and if it is bad, it could lead to a Republican Revolution and the country going back to the Reagan Era. I see this law, the ACA could really be a political game changer one way or the other. Which way, I do not have the foggyest.

    Then it again it could break fairly even and the country continues along the same road it is now. But the potential is there.
    This forcing of insurance of things I don't want or could ever use reminds me of the time I was forced to take out the insurance on a rental car.

    I felt the overwhelming need to drive the car into a wall and then give it back to them.

    If I am going to be forced to buy the insurance, then I feel the need to use it.

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