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Thread: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health Plan

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Yes - people don't realize what this is doing: people are laying A LOT MORE for the same coverage - they're just supporting everyone ELSE whose having babies and all that blah blah.
    And even that is highly doubtful. It's not like my Medicare taxes went up - I am just paying more to the insurance company that had traded more regulations for forced enrollment of new members. How much "wealth" will be actually "transferred" to those new members (comparing to what was spent on them already via emergency rooms and other channels) is anyone's guess - most of them are young, healthy people who did not cost anyone much anyway.

    We are not talking about some streamlined socialist program. That would be a topic for a different conversation. Here we have a ludicrous mongrel system combining the worst of both worlds - and pushed upon us by resorting to plain fraud.

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Have you looked on the exchanges to take advantage of the group rates? Or are you so determined to be independent that you insist on buying your policy privately?
    If you want to pay more by buying a private policy the insurance companies won't stop you.
    Don't worry, I did my homework. Sticking with the policy I have is still the best solution for me. I just have to pay 35% more, for the same thing.

    But no, I am not 100% "determined": maybe I should just drop it, pay the bloody fine, and switch completely to concierge medicine
    (Concierge Medicine Gains Ground).

    Maybe we all should do this, as an act of civil disobedience: crash this idiocy and clear the way for a real health care reform.

  3. #13
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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare - Forbes

    Looks like the "transitioning" to different compliant plans will hit group insurance policies too.

    Here is the link to the actual July 2010 grandfather memo: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010...2010-14488.pdf
    Can we get insured? Yes we can!

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Why would anyone want to keep their inadequate crap policies when under the ACA they can get better coverage for lower premiums?
    Some of these junk policies do not even cover hospitalization or have absurdly high deductibles and absurdly low caps. They should be illegal and now they are.
    This is a protection built into the ACA to make all policies meet a minimum standard of coverage.
    Unfortunately insurers have not been forth-coming with offering comparably priced policies that cover better than the junk they can no longer sell under the law. They saw this as an opportunity to try an up-sell to higher priced coverage, making people believe that the higher priced coverage is their only alternative.
    The insurance companies have been dishonest in an attempt to sell higher premium policies.
    A little investigation by those who have received these cancellation letters will reveal that they will have much better coverage often at the same or lower premiums.
    I'm just a lowly Canadian, so I'm not as clued in as a princely progressive may be, but did you actually read the content of the OP or did you just have your talking points ready to pounce?

    The OP, from what I read, was talking about employer sponsored plans - not individual plans. And it indicated that 66% and 45% respectively for small and large employers would see their plans cancelled because they didn't meet new Obamacare guidelines. In many cases, these are plans that the employer and the employees' representatives negotiated over the years and in many cases at little out of pocket cost to the employee - many employees had to forego salary increases or larger salary increases in order to protect the healthcare insurance coverage they contracted. Now, due to that increased level of coverage mandated by Obamacare, 66% of small businesses and 45% of large businesses are going to have their employer sponsored plans cancelled with no guarantee whatsoever that the employer will foot the bill for the higher cost of the new plans rather than simply dump the employees into the pool and let them sink or swim for themselves while the business just pays the penalty.

    How many of these employees who had plans they valued and wanted to keep are now tossed into the exchanges and having to pay significantly more to get minimal coverage under Obamacare? Do you know? I doubt it. You're too busy shilling for Obama and trying to run everyone else's household budget to give a damn.

    Buck Ewer is a good user ID for you since your primary goal, through the content you post, is to carry Obama's water for him.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Don't worry, I did my homework. Sticking with the policy I have is still the best solution for me. I just have to pay 35% more, for the same thing.

    But no, I am not 100% "determined": maybe I should just drop it, pay the bloody fine, and switch completely to concierge medicine
    (Concierge Medicine Gains Ground).

    Maybe we all should do this, as an act of civil disobedience: crash this idiocy and clear the way for a real health care reform.
    Sure you could try the "concierge " approach and pay the tax...but know this. The individual mandate tax goes up each year you do not have a real policy and as more people join the exchanges the policy premiums WILL go down. Your 35% increase is not etched in stone. There are still five months to go before prices are settled.

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post

    The OP, from what I read, was talking about employer sponsored plans - not individual plans. And it indicated that 66% and 45% respectively for small and large employers would see their plans cancelled because they didn't meet new Obamacare guidelines.
    The basic principal of all insurance premiums is that the larger the group, the smaller the rate.
    Once the exchanges get populated the rate will go down and the coverage will be better than what many of these small group policies had. there is still five months to go before policy rates are set.
    The "minimal coverage "will be better and most likely the cost will be the same or lower.
    I don't carry anyone's water but I am ready to dispel many lies and fears being tossed around here lately

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Look on the exchanges.
    The offerings on the exchange suck. Poor people would get no medical care because they couldn't pay the massive deductibles and copay requirements. Obamacare is a system designed to deny the truly poor any medical care at all and to give still another massive tax break to the rich.

    Why do you want the poor to have no medical care?

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    The basic principal of all insurance premiums is that the larger the group, the smaller the rate.
    Once the exchanges get populated the rate will go down and the coverage will be better than what many of these small group policies had. there is still five months to go before policy rates are set.
    The "minimal coverage "will be better and most likely the cost will be the same or lower.
    I don't carry anyone's water but I am ready to dispel many lies and fears being tossed around here lately
    Unless many of the people joining the risk pool are high-risk individuals or people with pre-existing conditions. You know, the type of people who couldn't get insurance before who are clamoring for Obamacare. In order for costs to even come close to staying level, you need a huge influx of young people to overpay on their premiums. Yes, I said overpay because the great majority of young people don't need comprehensive health insurance - catastrophic policies are the more economical (read: better and more appropriate) policy for them. Just because the group is larger doesn't mean costs will always be smaller. If you have a small group of healthy, young, low-risk individuals, they will have smaller premiums than a large group with a good deal of older, high-risk individuals with pre-existing conditions.

    The way things are currently going, there is not going to be near enough healthy young people willing to sign up to overpay for insurance they don't need/can't afford. Many will elect to pay the fine, causing rates to go up and the system to crash.

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The offerings on the exchange suck. Poor people would get no medical care because they couldn't pay the massive deductibles and copay requirements. Obamacare is a system designed to deny the truly poor any medical care at all and to give still another massive tax break to the rich.

    Why do you want the poor to have no medical care?
    Working poor people had few options for medical care before the ACA. Now they are eligible for subsides that defray deductible and co-pay expenses as well as premiums, based on the ability to pay. Truly poor people had , and still do have, ( now expanded), medicaid.
    If what you are advocating here is that we should go back to the way things were before the ACA was passed... YOU are the one who seems to want poor people to have no medical care.

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    Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Unless many of the people joining the risk pool are high-risk individuals or people with pre-existing conditions. You know, the type of people who couldn't get insurance before who are clamoring for Obamacare. In order for costs to even come close to staying level, you need a huge influx of young people to overpay on their premiums. Yes, I said overpay because the great majority of young people don't need comprehensive health insurance - catastrophic policies are the more economical (read: better and more appropriate) policy for them. Just because the group is larger doesn't mean costs will always be smaller. If you have a small group of healthy, young, low-risk individuals, they will have smaller premiums than a large group with a good deal of older, high-risk individuals with pre-existing conditions.

    The way things are currently going, there is not going to be near enough healthy young people willing to sign up to overpay for insurance they don't need/can't afford. Many will elect to pay the fine, causing rates to go up and the system to crash.
    There is no doubt about it...participation by all is the key. But understand this; The individual mandate tax penalty goes up every year :
    For 2014, $95 per uninsured person or 1 percent of household income over the filing threshold,
    For 2015, $325 per uninsured person or 2 percent of household income over the filing threshold, and
    For 2016 and beyond, $695 per uninsured person or 2.5 percent of household income over the filing threshold.
    ...at $695 per person in the household and $695 for every 2.5% they make over the filing threshold. Buying insurance begins to look like a more attractive option. Don't forget paying the mandate penalty tax does not exempt these "healthy young people" from being billed enormously by the emergency rooms when the do get sick or break a leg skiing.
    Last edited by Buck Ewer; 10-31-13 at 11:53 AM.

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