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Alabama Man Hires KKK member to Kill Neighbor like an Animal

MaggieD said:
I'd imagine he blabbed his intention all over the place. Most of these idiots are set up for stings because they ask a friend(s) if they know anyone . . . or even if they'll do it. And somebody gets nervous...or has a bone to pick with the guy...or is looking for favors from law enforcement. We're only reading the tip of the iceberg here, I'm sure. These kinds of stings are on tape . . . the perp has to be very specific . . . is generally given a soft opportunity to call it off. We just don't know enough, in my opinion.

But I know the FBI didn't just point to his name in the phone book. Ha!
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I hear you and I agree. It is most likely that he was asking around about it and the FBI caught wind of it. It concerns me, but this is exactly what I expect will come out later.
 
Goshin said:
Hold the phone and everybody chill.


"stand your ground" isn't going to protect you if you STARTED the shootout.
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This was in Alabama and the victim was Black. There's a good likelyhood that he would have been found not guilty if he had simply shot the guy.
 
Goshin said:
Hold the phone and everybody chill.


"stand your ground" isn't going to protect you if you STARTED the shootout.


Just because some dumbass whose elevator OBVIOUSLY does NOT go all the way to the top floor THINKS it would, does not mean it would.


/topic
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Except with stand your ground protection, usually only one of the parties is left to testify about what happened. And I bet they testify that the other guy started the violence. Zimmerman anybody?
 
head of joaquin said:
Except with stand your ground protection, usually only one of the parties is left to testify about what happened. And I bet they testify that the other guy started the violence. Zimmerman anybody?
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Most people are horrible shots, and you're ignoring the potential for witnesses and other evidence. You don't just say "I stood my ground" and magically avoid prison time.

If you're going to use a word like "usually," I presume you have some kind of factual basis for your statement. Do you?
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Most people are horrible shots, and you're ignoring the potential for witnesses and other evidence. You don't just say "I stood my ground" and magically avoid prison time.

If you're going to use a word like "usually," I presume you have some kind of factual basis for your statement. Do you?
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I've never seen a more misunderstood law in my life as Stand Your Ground. People really need to get a grip. Stand Your Ground laws simply means that the last man standing can't be prosecuted for not having retreated. "Why didn't he just run??" That...and most states include that civil suit can't be brought in that case either.

Without it? That's how we have a situation like Illinois has right now. (We don't have a SYG law here.) If someone kicks in your front door in the middle of the night, you can shoot 'em and be pretty safe that you're not going to be prosecuted. If, however, he picks your lock? Sans him having a firearm? You run the risk of prosecution.

And, of course, the notorious lawsuits where a robber is shot and he or his family file suit that the homeowner used undue force. Lawsuits that are/were often won, by the way.
 
opendebate said:
Here are some examples-

Five ‘Stand Your Ground’ Cases You Should Know About - ProPublica

5 "Stand Your Ground" Cases You Should Know About | Mother Jones
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Okay, I examined your link.

They talked about 200 cases were SYG had been alleged to play a part in the defense... but chose to speak about only 5 cases where someone had gotten off under questionable circumstances.

If you're remotely familiar with the so-called justice system you'd know that if only 5 people out of 200 get off when they MAYBE shouldn't have... that's actually damn good odds for our fracked up system. I've seen guys walk on technicalities for some pretty messed up stuff.

This is from the article you referenced and linked to, and it is pertinent:




The paper identified nearly 200 instances since 2005 where the state’s Stand Your Ground law has played a factor in prosecutors’ decisions, jury acquittals or a judge’s call to throw out the charges. (Not all the cases involved killings. Some involved assaults where the person didn’t die.)





The law removes a person’s duty to retreat before using deadly force against another in any place he has the legal right to be – so long as he reasonably believed he or someone else faced imminent death or great bodily harm. Among the Stand Your Ground cases identified by the paper, defendants went free nearly 70 percent of the time.
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That means 30% did NOT go free... and we don't know the other 70% probably SHOULD have gone free. The article only discusses five incidents.



FIVE incidents since 2005 that are questionable do not make for a pandemic that we must panic over. There have been 80,000 homicides in that time period.


In conclusion, this is not remotely evidence that SYG is some kind of major problem.


As I said before, any jackass like this one, who clearly does not have both oars in the water, may THINK he can claim SYG and get away with it... does not mean he would have.
 
reinoe said:
This was in Alabama and the victim was Black. There's a good likelyhood that he would have been found not guilty if he had simply shot the guy.
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Ah yes... the thread would not be complete, after all, without some egregious and baseless South-bashing and assumptions that we're all racist hicks. :roll
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Most people are horrible shots, and you're ignoring the potential for witnesses and other evidence. You don't just say "I stood my ground" and magically avoid prison time.

If you're going to use a word like "usually," I presume you have some kind of factual basis for your statement. Do you?
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Obviously not.
 
APACHERAT said:
If this were to have happen in NYC, Chicago, los Angels, etc. the undercover FBI agent would have probably identified himself as being a SEIU thug.
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Yeah, because there's a real equivalence between the KKK and the SEIU. :roll:
 
Fenton said:
So he hired a Democrat ?

Because the KKK is exclusive to the same party that filibustered the voting rights act in 1964.
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What a colossal display of historical ignorance. You really think the KKK still identifies with the Democratic party? Are you completely unaware of the shift in party ideologies regarding civil rights?

Support for the 1964 CRA wasn't divided on political lines, it was divided on geographic lines. Northern Democrats and Republicans overwhelmingly supported it; Southern Democrats and Republicans overwhelmingly opposed it.

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7–93%)
Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0–100%)

Northern Democrats: 145–9 (94–6%)
Northern Republicans: 138–24 (85–15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5–95%) (only Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0–100%) (John Tower of Texas)
Northern Democrats: 45–1 (98–2%) (only Robert Byrd of West Virginia voted against)
Northern Republicans: 27–5 (84–16%)
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Y
es yes, just like all whites are slave owners because some whites used to own slaves, and all "Conservatives" are idiots because some "Conservatives" can't rise above grade-school trolling.
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Thats not trolling, THAT'S the truth.
 
Fenton said:
Thats not trolling, THAT'S the truth.
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As Kobie eloquently pointed out in great detail, you and every other grade-school troll on the subject has oversimplified the Democrat opposition to civil rights legislation, and tried to hang that sin around the necks of all modern Democrats. That is exactly the same as hanging slavery around the necks of all white people today, and that's why it is trolling.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
As Kobie eloquently pointed out in great detail, you and every other grade-school troll on the subject has oversimplified the Democrat opposition to civil rights legislation, and tried to hang that sin around the necks of all modern Democrats. That is exactly the same as hanging slavery around the necks of all white people today, and that's why it is trolling.
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It's a painfully intellectually dishonest tactic. That doesn't seem to bother those who use it. Someone needs to remind them what party Strom Thurmond belonged to when the old bastard finally kicked it.
 
There should be an IQ test for anyone who says the words "stand your ground".

I still know of some complete mental asswipes who think that TM/GZ was about SYG.

And to think - they're allowed to run loose without medication. That's scarier than this story.
 
opendebate said:
So I find this story interesting for a variety of reasons. Here is are the main points:

An Alabama man admitted Thursday to trying to hire a man he believed was a Ku Klux Klansman to kill his neighbor, who is black and a registered sex offender.

Authorities said Morgan told agents that he’d tried to “force a confrontation” with his neighbor Aug. 22 by firing “multiple rounds of ammunition” at him on the street outside their homes.

Agents said the man ran away, and Morgan assumed he must be guilty of raping his wife because the neighbor did not try to stand his ground or reason with him.

An undercover FBI agent called Morgan a short time later, identified himself as a Klansman and asked him whether he wanted to “murder” his neighbor.

Morgan was arrested after the meeting and confessed that he’d wanted to hire hitmen to kill his neighbors.

First of all WOW, what an idiot. The points I find interesting are

1. The mentality here. He is going to kill someone, like an animal, based on nothing more then his own fear and suspicion and apparently he has the firearms needed to carry that out. Awesome.
2. I am, of course, very troubled by the presence and seemingly casual acceptance of the KKK being avaible for hire to kill but there is not enough in the story about that issue to address it here or support my thinking about it being commonplace.
3. He was trying to use the stand your ground premise to provoke a confrontation. Clearly, so that he could do it himself and justify it with the law
4. The technique the police used to set him up. I have a problem with this one. The guy is clearly an idiot but who knows if, in time ,he wouldn't have calmed down and let it go. Seems like the police forced the issue by offering him the service of a hit man.

Tell me what you think.

Here is a link to the Alabama SYG law Alabama Stand Your Ground - Castle Doctrine Law

The story Alabama man admits to hiring ‘Klansman’ to hang black neighbor ‘like an animal’ | The Raw Story
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I also read MSM reports about people who commit crimes and claim "the devil made me do it."

BTW, as an active Libertarian/Classical Liberal and proud member of the Tea Party I have NEVER EVER met anyone who claimed to be a member of a "white supremacist" organization...

I love how you progressives attempt to make it seem as if the KKK or other white supremacist organizations could be housed up right next door....

Honestly, I have no flipping clue as to who would just randomly believe some "odd looking white guy" would be a member of the KKK other than a paranoid progressive.
 
Kobie said:
What a colossal display of historical
ignorance. You really think the KKK still identifies with the Democratic party? Are you completely unaware of the shift in party ideologies regarding civil rights?

Support for the 1964 CRA wasn't divided on political lines, it was divided on geographic lines. Northern Democrats and Republicans overwhelmingly supported it; Southern Democrats and Republicans overwhelmingly opposed it.

Civil Rights Act of 1964 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7–93%)
Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0–100%)

Northern Democrats: 145–9 (94–6%)
Northern Republicans: 138–24 (85–15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5–95%) (only Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0–100%) (John Tower of Texas)
Northern Democrats: 45–1 (98–2%) (only Robert Byrd of West Virginia voted against)
Northern Republicans: 27–5 (84–16%)
Click to expand...


LOL !!

What's wrong ? Can't efectively perpetuate the false narrative that the GOP are racist ?

Sorry, history doesn't lie and the 1964 civil rights filibuster was absolutely supported by exclusively by democrats.

Next you'll be trying to make the case that Lincoln was a Democrat.

The truth is the Democrats went from a blatant self described racist platform to their current platform which is far more insidious.

Policies that enable generational dependence and poverty and all for one purpose.

To buy a vote.

Tell me is unemployment UP or DOWN for black Americans under Obama ? Are more people dependent or are they employed under the disastrous policies of a Liberal Democrat President ?

You don't have a clue while you push the false narrative of GOP racism. What party had a huge hand in the total destruction of the black family ?

What party governs over the vast majority of low income or just right out bankrupt inner city areas ?

What party was responsible for places like Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor Homes and Magnolia Apetments in New Orleans ehere crime and poverty grew out of control ?

Hint: It wasn't the GOP. All of that human suffering was enabled by Democrats so I find it a bit hypocritical to see you and your ilk tell me how inherently racist

The only difference between the modern day democrats and the democrats of the 60s is the those democtats ADMITTED their racism.

The new democrat party preaches the victim mentallity and tells these people without Governments help they can make it our society.

Again, under the first black President is poverty and dependence up or down ? Is black unemployment up or down ?
 
Kobie said:
It's a painfully intellectually dishonest tactic. That doesn't seem to bother those who use it. Someone needs to remind them what party Strom Thurmond belonged to when the old bastard finally kicked it.
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Them olde Dixicrats/KKK/southern Democrats hated the Democratic party so much after LBJ decided to "have every nigger voting democrat for the next 100 years" (at that point they were hardly a political party) instead of lynching them that they went against the "New Democrats/liberals" out of spite....

Just remember this - there is absolutely NOTHING stopping anyone from registering under any political affiliation they want to (just as long as they're on the ballot)...

The Dixicrats were never Republicans - they just had a lot of spite for democrats...
 
opendebate said:
So I find this story interesting for a variety of reasons. Here is are the main points:

An Alabama man admitted Thursday to trying to hire a man he believed was a Ku Klux Klansman to kill his neighbor, who is black and a registered sex offender.
Click to expand...




and now no ****s were officially given. Lock them all in a room with a bottle opener and see what happens
 
Fenton said:
LOL !!

What's wrong ? Can't efectively perpetuate the false narrative that the GOP are racist ?
Click to expand...

I stopped reading your unhinged rant there. In no way was I even attempting to perpetuate any narrative of the GOP being racist. Please go find anywhere that I've made blanked accusations of racism directed at Republicans or conservatives. I'll wait.

EDIT: I actually read the rest of your ravings. To which I say:

:roll:

The problems facing the black community in the U.S. today, just like every other problem facing our nation, are a lot more complex than "Republicans good, Democrats bad."
 
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opendebate said:
2. I am, of course, very troubled by the presence and seemingly casual acceptance of the KKK being avaible for hire to kill but there is ***not enough in the story about that issue to address it here or support my thinking about it being commonplace***.
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Hurr Durr, you don't say, skippy ... How does one even begin to draw such a conclusion is the better question
 
Fenton said:
LOL !!

What's wrong ? Can't efectively perpetuate the false narrative that the GOP are racist ?

Sorry, history doesn't lie and the 1964 civil rights filibuster was absolutely supported by exclusively by democrats.

Next you'll be trying to make the case that Lincoln was a Democrat.

The truth is the Democrats went from a blatant self described racist platform to their current platform which is far more insidious.

Policies that enable generational dependence and poverty and all for one purpose.

To buy a vote.

Tell me is unemployment UP or DOWN for black Americans under Obama ? Are more people dependent or are they employed under the disastrous policies of a Liberal Democrat President ?

You don't have a clue while you push the false narrative of GOP racism. What party had a huge hand in the total destruction of the black family ?

What party governs over the vast majority of low income or just right out bankrupt inner city areas ?

What party was responsible for places like Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor Homes and Magnolia Apetments in New Orleans ehere crime and poverty grew out of control ?

Hint: It wasn't the GOP. All of that human suffering was enabled by Democrats so I find it a bit hypocritical to see you and your ilk tell me how inherently racist

The only difference between the modern day democrats and the democrats of the 60s is the those democtats ADMITTED their racism.

The new democrat party preaches the victim mentallity and tells these people without Governments help they can make it our society.

Again, under the first black President is poverty and dependence up or down ? Is black unemployment up or down ?
Click to expand...

Civil Rights Act of 1957 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Fenton said:
LOL !!

What's wrong ? Can't efectively perpetuate the false narrative that the GOP are racist ?

Sorry, history doesn't lie and the 1964 civil rights filibuster was absolutely supported by exclusively by democrats.

Next you'll be trying to make the case that Lincoln was a Democrat.

The truth is the Democrats went from a blatant self described racist platform to their current platform which is far more insidious.

Policies that enable generational dependence and poverty and all for one purpose.

To buy a vote.

Tell me is unemployment UP or DOWN for black Americans under Obama ? Are more people dependent or are they employed under the disastrous policies of a Liberal Democrat President ?

You don't have a clue while you push the false narrative of GOP racism. What party had a huge hand in the total destruction of the black family ?

What party governs over the vast majority of low income or just right out bankrupt inner city areas ?

What party was responsible for places like Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor Homes and Magnolia Apetments in New Orleans ehere crime and poverty grew out of control ?

Hint: It wasn't the GOP. All of that human suffering was enabled by Democrats so I find it a bit hypocritical to see you and your ilk tell me how inherently racist

The only difference between the modern day democrats and the democrats of the 60s is the those democtats ADMITTED their racism.

The new democrat party preaches the victim mentallity and tells these people without Governments help they can make it our society.

Again, under the first black President is poverty and dependence up or down ? Is black unemployment up or down ?
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Nobody wants to hear about racism from an owner of slaves. Shop your silliness somewhere else.
 
opendebate said:
Unfortunately, there are many instances of this very thing taking place and the shooter getting off by using this law.
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On this I call BS! Document them or lose any credibility.
 
The history of the KKK is to come and go from one era to another..
The common threads are obvious..
 
NIMBY said:
The history of the KKK is to come and go from one era to another..
The common threads are obvious..
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The Democratic party was founded on the slave labor of others/Indentured servitude.... There is no debate in any of that....

Democrats have always been a party of dictated outcomes and a party that relies on dictated outcomes.....
 
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