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Thread: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Why? Heads of state communicate important messages and have been known to do things that harmed other countries badly. Please explain why these people should be exempt? I think it would be a grave breach of duty to neglect reading their mail and listening to their conversations.
    The simple answer is put yourself in their shoes.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Prove it.
    I guess you just cut out the rest of my point where I elaborated about him going after journalists? Nah, if you're too god damn lazy to reply to my points, there's really not any reason for me to continue providing more.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    The notion that every country spies is no excuse. Spying on heads of states telephone conversations is unforgivable. Come out clean with an apology to all those concerned.
    All countries spy or attempt to spy on other world leaders and businesses. Just dont get caught.. the US did, and now has to suffer the political consequences of this.

    But far from all country spies on million of citizens of other countries and their own citizens on a regular basis, and it is this fact that have pushed people like Snowden to leak the facts to the public.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    there's really not any reason for me to continue providing more.
    I too would back off if I had made an outrageously ridiculous claim that would be proven wrong the minute I qualified it with a standard. I ignored the rest of your long diatribe about how evil and doo-doo headed Obama is. It's irrelevant to the claim you made. Only wait...

    I elaborated about him going after journalists?
    That's the standard you've set for being more transparent than Obama? Fine.

    Nixon:

    Nixon plot against newspaper columnist detailed - politics | NBC News

    They launched an extraordinary campaign to smear and discredit the journalist who, more than anyone else, was bedeviling them by publishing government secrets: newspaper columnist Jack Anderson.
    Bush:

    Bush's War On The Press - CBS News

    As Eric Alterman detailed in a May 9 report in these pages, the Administration has scrapped enforcement of the Freedom of Information Act and has made it harder for reporters to do their jobs by refusing to cooperate with even the most basic requests for comment and data from government agencies.
    There you have two administrations who have done worse things. They weren't engaging in some action you subjectively thought as being "going after journalists". They blocked out and harassed journalists. Which makes this:

    as every administration prior to him has been more transparent.
    False. Now, run along. This is way above your skill level.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 10-26-13 at 04:57 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    The simple answer is put yourself in their shoes.
    In the shoes of a mafioso I'd hate a wire tap to.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Obama violated the Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt not get caught.

    At his level there is no excuse, this isn't third grade kickball.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I too would back off if I had made an outrageously ridiculous claim that would be proven wrong the minute I qualified it with a standard. I ignored the rest of your long diatribe about how evil and doo-doo headed Obama is. It's irrelevant to the claim you made. Only wait...



    That's the standard you've set for being more transparent than Obama? Fine.

    Nixon:

    Nixon plot against newspaper columnist detailed - politics | NBC News



    Bush:

    Bush's War On The Press - CBS News



    There you have two administrations who have done worse things. They weren't engaging in some action you subjectively thought as being "going after journalists". They blocked out and harassed journalists. Which makes this:



    False. Now, run along. This is way above your skill level.
    Well good, now that I've got you to put in some effort instead of writing lazy one liners, we can continue. For some reason you think his war on journalism has been the only thing making his administration the least transparent in history, when in reality it involves a culmination of things:

    - The Obama administration has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined.
    - The Obama administration has been frequently caught in the act illegally monitoring journalists
    - The Obama administration not only won't tell us how many detainees they're holding, why, or even where, and they've made their trials top secret and under a matter of national security, something Senator Obama heavily criticized.
    - They won't even acknowledge the existence of a drone program, nor the types of killings or reasons they have for using them.
    - The Obama administration has had more freedom of information act lawsuits than any president in history (Though FOIA has only existed for about 40 years, that's still quite a few presidents)


    So let's take a look at his promises:
    - Obama said he would end the wars LIE
    - Obama said he would have the most transparent in history LIE (even if he's not the least transparent, he's 100% not the most transparent)
    - Obama said he would close guantanomo LIE
    - Obama said he rejected the use of NSL's to spy on citizens not suspected of crime LIE
    - Obama said he would enforce habeus corpus LIE
    - etc. I could go on, but I think you get the point.

    Fact is, even if he weren't in charge of the least transparent administration in our history, he's definitely far, far, far from the most, which was his promise. But by all means, why don't you tell me about how informed you feel about your government and how transparent everything is.

    Sources: [1][2][3][4][5][6]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yep and then he was elected, some national security advisers showed up gave him a briefing - and he had to realize that the goals of some promises are simply inconsistent with how the real world works. If you think this wouldn't happen with any president, you're out of your noggin', my friend.
    Another rationalization for Obamalies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
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    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    First of all, Germany and Brazil have not been acting as a friends for many years and it is an absolutely necessity to keep an eye on such dangerous players.
    Second, it is silly to assume a nation can be a "friend" in the first place. Countries can have similar cultures and closely aligned national interests and these can be stable for extended periods such as between the US, Canada, England or Australia possibly Mexico and in a somewhat other form with Taiwan, Japan or South Korea. But with Germany? They hate us. And anyone that tells you differently is either performing a public policy lip service, lying or ignorant.
    I am a German specialist, know Thousands of Germans and have a lot of personal friends, follow the public Media closely and read a good number of German papers regularly. Believe me: They are not friends. Do not ever rely on them for anything.
    Put any rational you want to excuse it.

    Defending this has no excuse. Its pathetic and shameful.

    We aught to be damn embarrassed on how our government is doing whatever it can to ruin what little credibility and trust we have left in the world.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

  10. #30
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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    - The Obama administration has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined.
    Prove it. Show a link with all previous administrations and their charging of "whistleblowers" and not people charged under the Espionage Act, which is what you're referring to as whistleblowers are protected by the Whistleblower_Protection_Act. Here is the grand total for the Obama administration so far:

    8 Whistleblowers Charged With Violating the Espionage Act Under Obama - PolicyMic

    That is the total 8. Show that ALL previous administrations combined have charged less people with the Espionage Act or similar laws... wait... your claim is ridiculous:

    Here are the fourteenpeople I found disproving your claim:

    Aldrich Ames - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Robert Hanssen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Milestones: Dec. 13, 1963 - TIME

    Elizabeth Turrill Bentley, 55, onetime Communist whose disclosures of wartime Soviet espionage led to the conviction of more than a dozen top Reds between 1948 and 1951


    That's 14 people by my count charged under the same type of laws.

    - The Obama administration has been frequently caught in the act illegally monitoring journalists
    Show that they were caught more than other administrations. Thanks.

    - The Obama administration not only won't tell us how many detainees they're holding, why, or even where, and they've made their trials top secret and under a matter of national security, something Senator Obama heavily criticized.
    Show that previous administrations did tell people how many detainees they were holding. Thanks.

    - They won't even acknowledge the existence of a drone program, nor the types of killings or reasons they have for using them.
    Utterly false: U.S. pre-emptively refuses Sharif's challenge on drones - The Hindu

    - The Obama administration has had more freedom of information act lawsuits than any president in history (Though FOIA has only existed for about 40 years, that's still quite a few presidents)
    Lol - oh alright, so now we're measuring by a standard that only the last 40 years can be measured by. Good to know you're not moving goal posts, otherwise I'd be shaking in my booties.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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