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Thread: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Come off it. Monitoring others is an absolute necessity and any country that does not do it is irresponsible. You realize that monitoring others' actions reduces the probability of military conflict, don't you? Just look at the game theory implications of more and less understanding of what is happening.
    I cant believe you are defending spying on friends and foes alike....on their private communications system.

    We have Saudi Arabia who turned its back on us, Brazil & Germany are going to the UN for something to be done about this and I am sure other countries are going to join in on that action.

    Its pathetic. Our reputation in the world has fallen so far in the past 10 or so years and its only getting worse. Not only are we a laughing stock in the world, we are an untrustworthy laughing stock.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    The "spy" thing is quite complex ie has many facets.
    - Neither Brazil nor Germany is a freind. Both have caused enormous harm to the US over the last 20 years.

    - In the case of Germany there are a number of pertinent points to think about.
    - The German government has had early warnings about planed terrorist attacks given it from the NSA operations. It told the public but did not explain the programs, German participation in the programs nor the importance of the programs, leaving the public mistrustful of the US, which is generally disliked.
    - Ms Merkel wants to transfer more sovereignty to Europe, because the Euro is doomed, if the Euroland is not strengthened. As the German and a number of other populations around Europe do not want this Ms Merkel and a number of European Grandees are resorting to the "External Enemy" ploy to firm their backing against anticipated resistance to their deepening of Europe policies.
    - Successive German governments have been breaking German civil and criminal laws (at least as it has been interpreted by the courts) for twenty years in allowing data mining other things being carried out by US security agencies. This means that all major parties were involved. As German courts are in no way free to pick this up, there is no immediate danger to those involved. If the population pick up on the breadth of these activities, however, that could change and certainly the modus operandi of government would change radically to the detriment of the present holders of power. Ms Merkel is under enormous pressure to prevent this happening and it is therefore worth the risk to attack the Americans to deflect attention from the own wrong doing.
    I've heard a lot of stupid stuff in my life.. and continue to hear it.. but you sure take the cake for this week.

    I usually don't post those statements without going into detail... but with your blurt... i wouldn't even know where to start. It's subjective bogus from top to end.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    I cant believe you are defending spying on friends and foes alike....on their private communications system.

    We have Saudi Arabia who turned its back on us, Brazil & Germany are going to the UN for something to be done about this and I am sure other countries are going to join in on that action.

    Its pathetic. Our reputation in the world has fallen so far in the past 10 or so years and its only getting worse. Not only are we a laughing stock in the world, we are an untrustworthy laughing stock.
    First of all, Germany and Brazil have not been acting as a friends for many years and it is an absolutely necessity to keep an eye on such dangerous players.
    Second, it is silly to assume a nation can be a "friend" in the first place. Countries can have similar cultures and closely aligned national interests and these can be stable for extended periods such as between the US, Canada, England or Australia possibly Mexico and in a somewhat other form with Taiwan, Japan or South Korea. But with Germany? They hate us. And anyone that tells you differently is either performing a public policy lip service, lying or ignorant.
    I am a German specialist, know Thousands of Germans and have a lot of personal friends, follow the public Media closely and read a good number of German papers regularly. Believe me: They are not friends. Do not ever rely on them for anything.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Obama promised to have the most transparent administration in history, to stop the wars, and to rebuild international relations. His actions have been the exact opposite of all 3.

    At some point you have to blame the current administration for the way things are being run, and I think 5 years in is more than enough time.
    Yep and then he was elected, some national security advisers showed up gave him a briefing - and he had to realize that the goals of some promises are simply inconsistent with how the real world works. If you think this wouldn't happen with any president, you're out of your noggin', my friend.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 10-26-13 at 04:15 AM.
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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVsMatrix View Post
    I've heard a lot of stupid stuff in my life.. and continue to hear it.. but you sure take the cake for this week.

    I usually don't post those statements without going into detail... but with your blurt... i wouldn't even know where to start. It's subjective bogus from top to end.
    Germany and European relations is one of my specialties and I have been following the domestic politics, international relations and economics carefully for many years. I know a good number of the German political and media players some very well.
    Of course everything is subjective but that is trivial stuff. The important thing is, that every point made is factually correct. Possibly you should check it out.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    The notion that every country spies is no excuse. Spying on heads of states telephone conversations is unforgivable. Come out clean with an apology to all those concerned.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yep and then he was elected, some national security advisers showed up gave him a briefing - and he had to realize that the goals of some promises are simply inconsistent with how the real world works. If you think this wouldn't happen with any president, you're out of your noggin', my friend.
    Obama looks especially bad, because of the hype made by and around him. What is astounding is that a lot of people seem to have believed he could walk on water and would. Now they are disappointed.

    But he fell down in this case, because he has not been very straight forward. Any country has to spy and the US has been doing so in close coordination with their allies. The political class in these countries knew what was going on and profited from it. The data mining has increased security without any doubt. But this was not made enough clear and brought home to the peoples around the world. That is something Obama should have done.

    That a number of countries are utilizing the upset in their populations over this is obvious. In Brazil we see, if I see it correctly and I am not a Brazil specialist, a government that needs to stabilize itself in some way and in Germany, where I am a specialist, the Problems with the Euro require an instrument to shove sovereignty to the EU against the wishes of the people in order to save the misshapen currency. To do this type of thing "foreign enemies" are always good.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yep and then he was elected, some national security advisers showed up gave him a briefing - and he had to realize that the goals of some promises are simply inconsistent with how the real world works. If you think this wouldn't happen with any president, you're out of your noggin', my friend.
    Incorrect, as every administration prior to him has been more transparent. He's gone after journalists for ****'s sake. You're going to sit there and tell me he had no choice? You'll defend him on anything, won't you?

    Even if you accepted that as fact that "He just can't do anything about it", he's still a ****ing liar, plain and simple. He hasn't delivered on really any of his promises.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    The notion that every country spies is no excuse. Spying on heads of states telephone conversations is unforgivable. Come out clean with an apology to all those concerned.
    Why? Heads of state communicate important messages and have been known to do things that harmed other countries badly. Please explain why these people should be exempt? I think it would be a grave breach of duty to neglect reading their mail and listening to their conversations.

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    Re: Exclusive: Germany, Brazil Turn to U.N. to Restrain American Spies

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Incorrect, as every administration prior to him has been more transparent.
    Prove it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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