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Thread: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

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    Re: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    I could go through the studies again for the I dont know how many times but it is meaningless...try thinking about this, if the European countries and Canada and others get such crappy care and waiting list, why is there not a single country in the world trying to go back to such a wonderful system like ours? Simple answer, our system sucks and there is a world (literally) of evidnece UHC is far superior.
    ROTFLOL... You didn't answer one question, and I know why... you have absolutely no idea of what you're trying to defend.

    Liberty lost, and that is what this is... is rarely restored. And then only after deep, deep pain. Communists countries didn't relinquish control because things were going swimmingly. It died because it was unsustainable and produced massive misery in the process... the worst being a lazy, dishonorable, parasitic, barbaric mentality.

    Just wait until the government waves at you with their middle finger... or tells you to fark off and die... or as Obama said... take a pill. You'll wish, perhaps beg for the days we had choice through private insurance companies, or negotiation face to face with your caregiver.

    When socialism is instituted... it is difficult to return responsibility to the people. Politically it's akin to suicide... that's why Socialists want you dependent on them. Just listen to what happens when responsible people try to fix the failed systems of Medicare... Medicaid... and that Ponzi Scheme called Social Security. Look at what happens when responsible individuals try to correct the mess. The long knives of the Socialists and their propagandists come out... every time... without fail.

    Why do small towns in America service mildly complicated procedures that Canadian cities of million+ populations cannot? Why did the Supreme Court of Quebec rule waiting lists do not constitute care? Why do people suffer and die in these pathetic systems waiting for care?

    More questions you will fail to answer.

    I was once like you... it was a decade long journey before I learned how wrong I was... for you and others... you'll learn too... when that crap government run system (what has government ever done well besides the military?) haunts you and your kin.

    Enjoy! I'll laugh at the suffering and complaining Leftists. Yep laugh... because the idiots asked for it... and they'll get it. In the teeth. They always do. For those who have been screwed by it and fought against it... you have my deepest sympathies.
    Last edited by zimmer; 10-17-13 at 11:44 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
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    Re: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

    I believe some believe everything they read and don't know for themselves. Those who read only radical right agenda pushing sites tend to miss a lot.

    I know in small town Oklahoma medical services are being abandoned. From clinics to nursing homes they are closing, and were doing so LONG BEFORE Obamacare was a glint in Willard's eye. The focus has been on rapid transport to bigger cities, most cite the incredible increase in medical equipment costs as shutting down small town hospitals, not enough paying customers to justify the cost of a MRI/CATT scan and no government help to buy one. Certainly not enough money to pay a surgeon, surgical team and operating room at the ready in small town USA.

    Now we have JUST started getting ACA so the past medical costs, 130% increase vs the 27% inflation rate shows the current system is not working. 'Free Market' is a myth, without rules and regulations the very unscrupulous would plunder the economy at periodic intervals.... oh wait they still do!

    Gaining personal wealth while maintaining the dignity and well being of those who work for you is rather new to capitalism which saw labor as a consumable during the huge immigration period ending around 1929. Listening to mega millionaires like 'Pappa John' whine over the addition of a nickle per pizza to cover his workers instead cut hours to duck under the law shows the true attitude some of the wealthiest have for those who work for them.

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    Re: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    Tell me again why you so adamantely defend the most expensive medicore healthcare system in the world. I have having trouble grasping that...
    Sorry, but you are supporting the most expensive healthcare system in the world; the system you're thinking of use to be the most expensive.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    I believe some believe everything they read and don't know for themselves. Those who read only radical right agenda pushing sites tend to miss a lot.

    I know in small town Oklahoma medical services are being abandoned. From clinics to nursing homes they are closing, and were doing so LONG BEFORE Obamacare was a glint in Willard's eye. The focus has been on rapid transport to bigger cities, most cite the incredible increase in medical equipment costs as shutting down small town hospitals, not enough paying customers to justify the cost of a MRI/CATT scan and no government help to buy one. Certainly not enough money to pay a surgeon, surgical team and operating room at the ready in small town USA.

    Now we have JUST started getting ACA so the past medical costs, 130% increase vs the 27% inflation rate shows the current system is not working. 'Free Market' is a myth, without rules and regulations the very unscrupulous would plunder the economy at periodic intervals.... oh wait they still do!

    Gaining personal wealth while maintaining the dignity and well being of those who work for you is rather new to capitalism which saw labor as a consumable during the huge immigration period ending around 1929. Listening to mega millionaires like 'Pappa John' whine over the addition of a nickle per pizza to cover his workers instead cut hours to duck under the law shows the true attitude some of the wealthiest have for those who work for them.
    I used to be a Leftist, it took a good decade to understand Socialist Kare fails miserably. We're not talking small towns but major cities. Having spent ample time in Europe and Canada... measured in decades I've lived it. And know others who live it too. That is why a small city in ND could do what Calgary and Edmonton could not do. You see... socialist systems look at everything as a cost and try to reduce such costs. TThat's why there are more cardiac units in Orange County, CA than in Canada. That small town in OK may not have all the services, but I bet they're not too far away.

    There are free market solutions to those problems, and in Canada for example, the illegal free market is taking up the slack with MRI's and such.

    As for you last paragraph... you fail to realize businesses are not charities... and those increased costs must be paid for... by you. You also fail to realize those costs for health insurance could just as easily be included in your pay check and then you could shop for your own health care. Or not if you so chose.

    Nobody is forcing people to work at any establishment, but we are being forced to purchase a product with the coercive government... IRS hanging over our heads. And for businesses that don't want the burden... they'll simply demand more from their employees (because they can when all those socialist schemes have done nothing but create misery and an employers market), and they'll deny coverage to families... because it costs to much.

    And it's not "ducking under laws"... it simply running a business, and trying to limit risk and reduce the amount of government interference. That's why people aren't hiring... and why there has been no recovery since out dimwitted Socialist took office.

    But hey... the parasites have their ObamaKare... ROTFLOL... no... many parasites are coming to the realization, they're carrying the freight for the most parasitic! I say... Good on ya for fark'in yourselves. Now I don't wanna hear no complain'in. SUCKERS!

    $123,000 per worker thanks to Socialism... and that doesn't include unfunded liabilities (60 TRILLION) nor the future cost of ObamaAbortion.
    Last edited by zimmer; 10-17-13 at 01:19 PM.
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    Re: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

    You seem to be a very angry fellow, but if it makes you feel any better you are completly wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    ROTFLOL... You didn't answer one question, and I know why... you have absolutely no idea of what you're trying to defend.

    Liberty lost, and that is what this is... is rarely restored. And then only after deep, deep pain. Communists countries didn't relinquish control because things were going swimmingly. It died because it was unsustainable and produced massive misery in the process... the worst being a lazy, dishonorable, parasitic, barbaric mentality.

    Just wait until the government waves at you with their middle finger... or tells you to fark off and die... or as Obama said... take a pill. You'll wish, perhaps beg for the days we had choice through private insurance companies, or negotiation face to face with your caregiver.

    When socialism is instituted... it is difficult to return responsibility to the people. Politically it's akin to suicide... that's why Socialists want you dependent on them. Just listen to what happens when responsible people try to fix the failed systems of Medicare... Medicaid... and that Ponzi Scheme called Social Security. Look at what happens when responsible individuals try to correct the mess. The long knives of the Socialists and their propagandists come out... every time... without fail.

    Why do small towns in America service mildly complicated procedures that Canadian cities of million+ populations cannot? Why did the Supreme Court of Quebec rule waiting lists do not constitute care? Why do people suffer and die in these pathetic systems waiting for care?

    More questions you will fail to answer.

    I was once like you... it was a decade long journey before I learned how wrong I was... for you and others... you'll learn too... when that crap government run system (what has government ever done well besides the military?) haunts you and your kin.

    Enjoy! I'll laugh at the suffering and complaining Leftists. Yep laugh... because the idiots asked for it... and they'll get it. In the teeth. They always do. For those who have been screwed by it and fought against it... you have my deepest sympathies.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    I used to be a Leftist, it took a good decade to understand Socialist Kare fails miserably. We're not talking small towns but major cities. Having spent ample time in Europe and Canada... measured in decades I've lived it. And know others who live it too. That is why a small city in ND could do what Calgary and Edmonton could not do. You see... socialist systems look at everything as a cost and try to reduce such costs. TThat's why there are more cardiac units in Orange County, CA than in Canada. That small town in OK may not have all the services, but I bet they're not too far away. There are free market solutions to those problems, and in Canada for example, the illegal free market is taking up the slack with MRI's and such. As for you last paragraph... you fail to realize businesses are not charities... and those increased costs must be paid for... by you. You also fail to realize those costs for health insurance could just as easily be included in your pay check and then you could shop for your own health care. Or not if you so chose. Nobody is forcing people to work at any establishment, but we are being forced to purchase a product with the coercive government... IRS hanging over our heads. And for businesses that don't want the burden... they'll simply demand more from their employees (because they can when all those socialist schemes have done nothing but create misery and an employers market), and they'll deny coverage to families... because it costs to much. And it's not "ducking under laws"... it simply running a business, and trying to limit risk and reduce the amount of government interference. That's why people aren't hiring... and why there has been no recovery since out dimwitted Socialist took office. But hey... the parasites have their ObamaKare... ROTFLOL... no... many parasites are coming to the realization, they're carrying the freight for the most parasitic! I say... Good on ya for fark'in yourselves. Now I don't wanna hear no complain'in. SUCKERS!
    No one is strident than a 'used to be'- smoker, sinner or political affiliation. This partisan all or nothing mindset is the most corrosive for society. Combining the best of our systems makes far more sense than saying 'free market' can conquer all. The ACA has several levels of payment and coverage, you need to read more than the radical right take on things to get a better understanding.

    I buy my own insurance, shopping the various plans is mind numbing as you can't just go see the various plans and compare, there are way too many behind the curtain decisions made when you apply for a plan. Just try shopping around for a plan from conglomerate to conglomerate. The system as it stands now doesn't encourage cost savings or competition. The skyrocketing cost of medical care vs inflation is a key indicator 'free market' medical care is highly flawed.

    What small town in North Dakota can do more than Calgary? Say the name.

    'Pappa Johns' was not looking out for his workers or even ability to keep the lights on but a petty and vicious lashing out against something that costs him a nickle per pizza to provide. He and a few others have highlighted the old robber baron mindset that puts labor into the same 'consumables' category as flour and cheese.

    The bottom line is no matter how hard a few refuse to accept any other POV but the radical right one the die is cast. The debacle that was the 'Cruz Control' shutdown is like a death ken of the past.

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    Re: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    No one is strident than a 'used to be'- smoker, sinner or political affiliation.
    That's true... I know the bastards on the Left are disgusting liars, and for what type of cause? A destructive one. One that fails everywhere. So... after traveling the world at a young age and not as some hippie backpacker, and having grown up in both Europe and North America... I know the evils having them lived them. America, had they stayed the course of the Founders would be able to look at Europe and any other intellectually bankrupt place and say... We told ya it wouldn't work. Now we can point to ourselves and say... and we're to dumb to pull it off too... but now we've got the most incompetent President in modern times and a pack of Socialists saying... just in case... LET'S DOUBLE DOWN!

    Anda Boom'a go'da dyn-O-mite!


    I buy my own insurance, shopping the various plans is mind numbing as you can't just go see the various plans and compare, there are way too many behind the curtain decisions made when you apply for a plan.
    Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... too many choices so little time for TV.

    You'd love the Soviet System. North Korea is waiting for ya. Don't miss the next flight with Rodman.


    What small town in North Dakota can do more than Calgary? Say the name.

    'Pappa Johns' was not looking out for his workers or even ability to keep the lights on but a petty and vicious lashing out against something that costs him a nickle per pizza to provide. He and a few others have highlighted the old robber baron mindset that puts labor into the same 'consumables' category as flour and cheese.
    If the people don't like working there... they can leave. BUT... we cannot... we have NO CHOICE. And after their little scheme with laughable fines wears of... yo be da ****ed.

    The bottom line is no matter how hard a few refuse to accept any other POV but the radical right one the die is cast. The debacle that was the 'Cruz Control' shutdown is like a death ken of the past.
    You thick? I was a Leftists. I lived abroad and spend a ton of time abroad. The bottom line is more government = more and more spectacular failure. Show me one of these idiotic schemes that work...

    and...

    ... you skirted every question and example.

    Not surprising because it is too easy to nail the coffin on Socialism. But hey... we can make it work... ROTFLOL... come back to me when you need care and are in a waiting list, when your rates go up, and when the government says go **** yourself.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    You seem to be a very angry fellow, but if it makes you feel any better you are completly wrong.
    I know socialist schemes well, and have no fear ripping them apart. And you offer no rebuttal except for clearing your throat and farting. It's about par for the course because what is happening is indefensible. But hey... the idiots mean well. But, but, but... how's it working? Oh the patient died... but he means well. OK... cool...

    And the bong gets loaded up again... Choom Gang Time!

    Show me one that works... ROTFLOL... why not start with the village of Sweden. And for a start... google Angry Dr. Then look at what other Swedes say about their sucky system. Or Canada's... with those who can afford it (like MP Lib Stronach who went to the US for cancer treatment rather than wait in line like a good slave of the state), or ask the 14,000 in France who died in a heat wave while the Dr.'s vacationed. Or the German Docs who make 25% of US docs because they're a ward of the state... a cost. Who wants to take on that responsibility, that amount of schooling and have the state dictate how much you make... what services you can provide... even though you're qualified to provide other services? Not many... that's why they're depending on eastern European labor to fill the holes and what happens when they deem life is better back home. BOOM! And.. How about England's wonderful care where they skirt the system of emergency care by having ambulances wait outside the emergency ward. So much socialism... so many disaster stories... Coming soon to an American town near you... ObamaKare... if you can sign up that is.

    600 million for a website... ROTFLOL... I could have put a team together to have that done for 5% the cost... and then it's a hackers wet dream... people will be handing over private info and losing their life savings in the process. Isn't government wonderful?

    And we've got $123,000 of debt er worker... a 55% increase since Obama took office... and what do we have to show for this Socialist expansion? NOTHING... but misery.
    Last edited by zimmer; 10-17-13 at 03:12 PM.
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    Re: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

    It is not my gutteral body functions that are stinking up the place. There is literally a world of evidence demonstrating the superiority of UHC over our system, in nearly every meaningful measure, and I have argued that evidnece ad nauseum wiht conservatives, to no avail. Since the numbers and science wont sway you, lets try a little logic. Have you headrd about the Canadian, Japanese or Swedish large political movement to get rid of their UHC system and institute a system liek ours? No of course not. Know why? The wait times and death panels in UHC are made up, if you compare legitmate studies...well nevermind. I just read the bong gets loaded up line again and realize the futility.
    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    I know socialist schemes well, and have no fear ripping them apart. And you offer no rebuttal except for clearing your throat and farting. It's about par for the course because what is happening is indefensible. But hey... the idiots mean well. But, but, but... how's it working? Oh the patient died... but he means well. OK... cool...

    And the bong gets loaded up again... Choom Gang Time!

    Show me one that works... ROTFLOL... why not start with the village of Sweden. And for a start... google Angry Dr. Then look at what other Swedes say about their sucky system. Or Canada's... with those who can afford it (like MP Lib Stronach who went to the US for cancer treatment rather than wait in line like a good slave of the state), or ask the 14,000 in France who dies in a heat wave while the Dr.'s vacationed. Or the German Docs who make 25% of US docs because they're a ward of the state... a cost. How about England's wonderful care where they skirt the system of emergency care by having ambulances wait outside the emergency ward.

    And we've got $123,000 of debt er worker... a 55% increase since Obama took office... and what do we have to show for this Socialist expansion? NOTHING... but misery.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Harvard: US debt bill is $123,000 per worker

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    It is not my gutteral body functions that are stinking up the place. There is literally a world of evidence demonstrating the superiority of UHC over our system, in nearly every meaningful measure, and I have argued that evidnece ad nauseum wiht conservatives, to no avail. Since the numbers and science wont sway you, lets try a little logic. Have you headrd about the Canadian, Japanese or Swedish large political movement to get rid of their UHC system and institute a system liek ours? No of course not. Know why? The wait times and death panels in UHC are made up, if you compare legitmate studies...well nevermind. I just read the bong gets loaded up line again and realize the futility.
    ROTFLOL... you are fully ignorant of Socialist Healthcare schemes. You are aware the Supreme Court of Quebec ruled that waiting lists do not constitute care? You do realize Canada is a waiting list nightmare. You are aware it's the same in England? That Swedes complain bitterly about their crappy system. Of course not.

    Government isn't flexible enough to do this type of thing...

    Read some articles by the author of the book Code Blue. David Gratzer ...a Canadian MD who will tell you its horrors and why any country should stay far away from it. He will also criticize the US system... but ixing its few ills doesn't require the abortion sprung on the nation by a bunch of CommiLibs.

    It took me a lot of years to realize I was dead wrong... I had the benefit of living in Canada, Germany, Sweden and Finland (among other places) and making a comparison. You've been fed a load of bull, and decided you like it. I... kept an open mind and had to admit... I was wrong. Socialist schemes are massive failures... or as one Dem called ObamaKare... a "train wreck".

    So much debt in so little time. How does Obama do it? ROTFLOL... the poor suckers who have to deal with the crap and won't be able to buy their way out. I feel sorry for those who know it will fail and tried to stop it... for the rest of ya... you screwed yourselves... enjoy the ride.

    and then we have this nightmare...

    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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