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$2 billion ‘kentucky kickback’ in budget

Deuce said:
Way late, way over budget, and performance numbers that keep getting worse to the point where the damned thing is being outperformed by current-generation fighters. Some estimates put the lifetime cost of the program at over a trillion dollars at this point.

You seriously think a plane can have a $200 million/aircraft flyaway cost because of unions?
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Why is it costing so much?
 
Perotista said:
McConnell is going up against businessman Matt Bevin and Bevin has no chance in the primary. At least that is McCOnnell's only primary opponent as to date. Now the Democrats have 3 real good candidates vying for the opportunity to take him on to include the Democratic Secretary of State who has won state wide races. A professor of Louisville and someone else. Lundergan I think I spelled that right is the Sec of State and so far is giving McConnell fits. Charlie Cook calls this race a toss up at this point. But this far out it means little to nothing, but the possibility is there.
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We have a Liberal in there now, why would we vote another Liberal in?
 
Imnukingfutz said:
We have a Liberal in there now, why would we vote another Liberal in?
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you can call McConnell a lot of things, but a liberal? Not even close. I assume by the wording of your post you are to the right of McConnell. Right now you have two democrats occupying seats republicans would have had in the senate if they had nominated someone not so far right. Indiana and Missouri. How does a Democratic Senator with a 60% disapproval rating lose in a conservative state like Missouri, the Republicans nominate a candidate with a 70% disapproval rating and viola, another democrat goes to Washington. Keep this up and soon the Democratic Liberal Majority in the Senate becomes 60 seats, 65 seats etc. Filibuster proof where any far left wing agenda can be passed very easily.
 
What a Misunderstanding

That funding was not a "kickback".


The funding had already been approved by the House and Senate earlier this year and was a part of President Obama's
2014 budget.

From:


'Kentucky Kickback'? Not so much.

....according to congressional sources from both parties, wasn’t a McConnell project:

< SNIP>

there was bipartisan support for increasing the project’s funding.
The provision does not allocate $2 billion; rather, it raises the cap for the amount Congress could allocate later.

President Obama asked for it in his 2014 budget, and both the House and the Senate had passed bills allowing the increase this year.
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'Kentucky Kickback'? Not so much.
 
apdst said:
Why is it costing so much?
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The cost of the program has doubled since its starting estimates. How much do you think the wages of the plant workers has gone up? :lamo

The reasons for the cost overrun are numerous. Horrendous mismanagement at the Pentagon and at Lockheed Martin. But sure, blame the poor schmuck on an assembly line putting it together because he wants $50k/year on a $500 billion project.
 
Thrilla said:
this wasn't McConnell's doing.... the President asked for the increase in his budget and it has wide bipartisan support.

y'all need to read about an issue before you go off half cocked.
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Wow! You've got a pitcherful of tea party koolaid right there on your desk.
 
Deuce said:
The cost of the program has doubled since its starting estimates. How much do you think the wages of the plant workers has gone up? :lamo

The reasons for the cost overrun are numerous. Horrendous mismanagement at the Pentagon and at Lockheed Martin. But sure, blame the poor schmuck on an assembly line putting it together because he wants $50k/year on a $500 billion project.
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So, you don't have a clue why it costs so much?
 
apdst said:
So, you don't have a clue why it costs so much?
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I have plenty of clues. Couple random, major ****ups off the top of my head:

1) Attempting to rely on computer simulations before finalizing a design goal. This attempts to skip the whole "build one and see if it actually freaking works like we want" part. End result: it doesn't, requiring numerous additional revisions after...
2) Building numerous airframes before testing is even completed. Those additional revisions now have to incorporated into planes you've already built.
3) Literally hundreds of different suppliers, many from overseas, results in a logistical and administrative nightmare
4) Standard "evolving" Pentagon performance requirements. Add in new "desired features" halfway through design means substantial redesign efforts

But yeah, I'm sure the health insurance for the welder is the ****ing reason the cost projections doubled. :roll:
 
apdst said:
Funding our army isn't wasteful spending.
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Sure. That's why our offices got all brand new furniture today when the stuff we had was just fine. All because we "had to spend it or lose it" by the end of the fiscal year. Our military is black hole bro. I know you've heard the saying "had to spend it or lose it" before.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Sure. That's why our offices got all brand new furniture today when the stuff we had was just fine. All because we "had to spend it or lose it" by the end of the fiscal year. Our military is black hole bro. I know you've heard the saying "had to spend it or lose it" before.
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We have that problem in schools across-the-board MarineT..
Spend it by spring break,
while on another stupid note you're forced to put up next year's budget just after that
both at the coincidental "high-price" time of the year .
 
MarineTpartier said:
Sure. That's why our offices got all brand new furniture today when the stuff we had was just fine. All because we "had to spend it or lose it" by the end of the fiscal year. Our military is black hole bro. I know you've heard the saying "had to spend it or lose it" before.
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Clearly you just hate the troops ;)
 
Perotista said:
you can call McConnell a lot of things, but a liberal? Not even close. I assume by the wording of your post you are to the right of McConnell. Right now you have two democrats occupying seats republicans would have had in the senate if they had nominated someone not so far right. Indiana and Missouri. How does a Democratic Senator with a 60% disapproval rating lose in a conservative state like Missouri, the Republicans nominate a candidate with a 70% disapproval rating and viola, another democrat goes to Washington. Keep this up and soon the Democratic Liberal Majority in the Senate becomes 60 seats, 65 seats etc. Filibuster proof where any far left wing agenda can be passed very easily.
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Its being passed now with the Liberal Republicans aiding them along.

I wouldnt say I am Right of McConnell, it really would depend on the issue. Fiscal issues - yes, I am way to the right of him. I am more along the Ron Paul / Rand Paul way of thinking on fiscal issues. On social issues I am Left of McConnell. I support gay marriage, abortion is NOT a governmental issue, I am for the legalization of drugs.
 
minnie616 said:
What a Misunderstanding

That funding was not a "kickback".


The funding had already been approved by the House and Senate earlier this year and was a part of President Obama's
2014 budget.
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Minnie....the funding left for the project was $775 Million....They gave them $2.9 Billion...what would you call it?
 
Imnukingfutz said:
Mitch McConnell Accused of Sneaking in $2 Billion ‘Kentucky Kickback’ in Budget, Debt Limit Deal

Well, the Republicans caved in and ran away with their tails between their legs over the budget negotiations. The stupid idiots allowed the Continuing Resolution debate to be combined with the Debt ceiling debate...morons.

But thats not the reason I posted this. It looks like McConnell's home state is getting a special present out of all this.

A damn project that was slated to get $775,000,000 of Federal monies somehow got bumped to $2,918,000,000.

No wonder McConnell was so gung ho to pass the deal...screw our budget, Kentucky is getting $3 Billion for a project originally slated to get $775 Million. I wonder if the Contracting company that is building the damn is any kin, friend or large campaign donor of McConnell's.

And we wonder why the country is in the economic shape it is in.
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I wouldn't be surpirsed if they were kin.


Of course it doesn't hurt having the Prince of Pork, Hal Rodgers as chairman of the House Appropiations Committee either. He too hails from Kentucky and has brought over $26 billion of federal money back to his home state over the last ten years.

Hal Rogers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Hal Rogers (R-Kentucky), a 16-term Congressmen who known for funneling taxpayer money for pet projects in his district – and far beyond. Roger’s has brought so much federal money to his hometown (Somerset, Kentucky; population 11,000) that it is known as Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood. There’s a $52 million National Center for Hometown Security. The tiny airport that received $17 million in federal dollars but has so little traffic that the last commercial airline pulled out in February. And then there’s the Hal Rogers Parkway, which was formerly known as the Daniel Boone Parkway before being renaming for Kentucky’s Prince of Pork. Most recently, Rogers pushed through a $5 million dollar measure this year for conservation groups that work with endangered wild cats. It just so happens that one of the few groups eligible is the Namibia-based Cheetah Conservation Fund. Who works for them? The Congressman’s daughter. Over the past two years, Rogers has pushed through 135 earmarks at a cost of $246 million......
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...rince-of-pork-appropriations-chair/#undefined


Oh look, he gave money to his kin. too.
 
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McConnell losing would be like Lugar losing, and giving Dems another seat,
especially with a Dem governor who is making ACA work .
 
MarineTpartier said:
Sure. That's why our offices got all brand new furniture today when the stuff we had was just fine. All because we "had to spend it or lose it" by the end of the fiscal year. Our military is black hole bro. I know you've heard the saying "had to spend it or lose it" before.
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C'mon, troop! Surely YOU understand that I never said there wasn't waste going on inside the DOD, but the Libbos' notion the funding the military is wasteful spending is ****ing stupid.
 
Imnukingfutz said:
Its being passed now with the Liberal Republicans aiding them along.

I wouldnt say I am Right of McConnell, it really would depend on the issue. Fiscal issues - yes, I am way to the right of him. I am more along the Ron Paul / Rand Paul way of thinking on fiscal issues. On social issues I am Left of McConnell. I support gay marriage, abortion is NOT a governmental issue, I am for the legalization of drugs.
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You're real close to me, I believe in fiscal responsibility and also believe government shout stay out of such things as abortion and gay marriage. I believe those are individual/personal issues. The only big issue is drug policy, I am in no way or form in favor of legalizing it.
 
Imnukingfutz said:
Thats exactly what you are supposed to believe. You are a faithful follower and defender of the status quo....the powers that be are proud of you.
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No, I'm just grounded in reality. You should try it.

Imnukingfutz said:
regardless of the size of the droplet, it was droplets of varying size that make up the ocean of debt.
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Yes, and instead of worrying about taking money from a widow which represents .004% of the ocean, how about you spend more time worrying about the larger drops?

But be a good follower and keep defending the status quo.
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It has nothing to do with following or status quo, it has to do with reality. Your assertion we should cause economic ruin across the world because of $2b which would be spent anyways is not only absurd, it's foolhardy. I have no idea why you don't understand why $2b to save TRILLIONS of dollars is a good investment.

It's clear to me you prefer extreme measures, instead of carefully considered ones which result in a gradual improvement over time. It's also clear to me I would never want you to manage anything of mine, and certainly not my money.
 
Perotista said:
You're real close to me, I believe in fiscal responsibility and also believe government shout stay out of such things as abortion and gay marriage. I believe those are individual/personal issues. The only big issue is drug policy, I am in no way or form in favor of legalizing it.
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In a free society, we must take the good freedoms with the bad freedoms. We can not pick and choose which freedoms we allow. Either you are free to choose or you are not.

Should drugs be legal - yes
Are you a stupid moron if you do them - yes
 
Slyfox696 said:
No, I'm just grounded in reality. You should try it.

Yes, and instead of worrying about taking money from a widow which represents .004% of the ocean, how about you spend more time worrying about the larger drops?

It has nothing to do with following or status quo, it has to do with reality. Your assertion we should cause economic ruin across the world because of $2b which would be spent anyways is not only absurd, it's foolhardy. I have no idea why you don't understand why $2b to save TRILLIONS of dollars is a good investment.

It's clear to me you prefer extreme measures, instead of carefully considered ones which result in a gradual improvement over time. It's also clear to me I would never want you to manage anything of mine, and certainly not my money.
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Reality is that our politicians are money grubbing, power hungry people who do not care about doing what they are elected to do, they are more concerned about not upsetting their gravy train.

No one ever said that $2 billion would cause economic ruin, what is being said is those little $2 billion here and there add up to an ocean of debt.

Carefully considered spending cuts are a thing to behold, a goal that should be striven for....tossing out billions here and there to buy votes is not economically smart nor is it a carefully considered spending cut.

You support the status quo in Washington, fine, thats all you. But dont bitch when they waste money. Just like you are supporting.

As far as managing money...Living on less than you earn and being debt free is a wonderful thing. Apparently you havent figured that out yet. Hopefully someday you will.
 
Imnukingfutz said:
In a free society, we must take the good freedoms with the bad freedoms. We can not pick and choose which freedoms we allow. Either you are free to choose or you are not.

Should drugs be legal - yes
Are you a stupid moron if you do them - yes
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I understand what you're saying, but there are certain drugs I would fight against becoming legal. But outside of that, I am assuming we are pretty much on the same page.
 
Moot said:
I wouldn't be surpirsed if they were kin.


Of course it doesn't hurt having the Prince of Pork, Hal Rodgers as chairman of the House Appropiations Committee either. He too hails from Kentucky and has brought over $26 billion of federal money back to his home state over the last ten years.

Hal Rogers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Hal Rogers (R-Kentucky), a 16-term Congressmen who known for funneling taxpayer money for pet projects in his district – and far beyond. Roger’s has brought so much federal money to his hometown (Somerset, Kentucky; population 11,000) that it is known as Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood. There’s a $52 million National Center for Hometown Security. The tiny airport that received $17 million in federal dollars but has so little traffic that the last commercial airline pulled out in February. And then there’s the Hal Rogers Parkway, which was formerly known as the Daniel Boone Parkway before being renaming for Kentucky’s Prince of Pork. Most recently, Rogers pushed through a $5 million dollar measure this year for conservation groups that work with endangered wild cats. It just so happens that one of the few groups eligible is the Namibia-based Cheetah Conservation Fund. Who works for them? The Congressman’s daughter. Over the past two years, Rogers has pushed through 135 earmarks at a cost of $246 million......
Spending cuts? From these guys? Republicans Poised to Make


Oh look, he gave money to his kin. too.
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Haven't read the whole thread, but hasn't anybody noticed that it was not McConnell that inserted the language re:funding amounts and this project, it was Feinstein [D Calif ] and Alexander [R Tenn]...

"For one thing, McConnell apparently did not request that funding for the dam be included in the legislation. Rather, the request came from Lamar Alexander of Tennessee and Dianne Feinstein of California. They are, respectively, the ranking member and the chairman of the relevant Senate Committee.

Moreover, Alexander defended the funding. He argued that “according to the Army Corps of Engineers, 160 million taxpayer dollars will be wasted because of canceled contracts if this language is not included.”

A Kentucky kickback? | Power Line


While I wish McConnell would be a bit, well okay maybe a lot, more assertive for our causes, he is a very sly old guy, and while he most assuredly could have orchestrated this deal, it was readily admitted by Diane F that she was one of the culprits, not Mitch there. Now he did not turn it down, it should also be noted. Maybe that has already been said somewhere in the thread, sorry if I am stepping on anybody's post. Just didn't seem like that tidbit had come to light judging by the statements being made currently.


In any event, all this effort to make Mitch look like you Dem's in the Corn Husker Kickback and newest Louisiana Purchase deals seems for naught, eh?
 
Imnukingfutz said:
Reality is that our politicians are money grubbing, power hungry people
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Yup. Which is why it makes sense to use money which was already going to be spent to be spent in a manner which prevents economic devastation.

No one ever said that $2 billion would cause economic ruin
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If this $2b prevented the US from defaulting, and the $2b wasn't spent, then it could have. This is not a hard thing to understand.

You support the status quo in Washington, fine, thats all you.
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I get the feeling you learned what "status quo" means recently and are intent on using it as often as you can in an attempt to make people think you are more intelligent. Of course, you clearly don't understand what it means, because it in no way represents my position.

But dont bitch when they waste money. Just like you are supporting.
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No, I'm not supporting wasting money. What I'm supporting is understanding the reality of what we had. You don't seem to understand the reality of what we had.

As far as managing money...Living on less than you earn and being debt free is a wonderful thing.
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Indeed it is and I never plan on doing any other, but I'm not a government and not one who is the foundation for economics across the world.

Apparently you havent figured that out yet. Hopefully someday you will.
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Apparently you haven't figured out the difference between an individual and a government. Hopefully someday you will.
 
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