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Pew: Tea Party support at record low

even if the people support the delay or repeal obamacare, i don't believe anyone would support shutting down the government as a way of forcing the issue.

want to change Obamacare, win elections and do it via the legislative process, not resort to shock doctrine.

Wasn't the House of Congress using the legislative process of not funding Obamacare ?

Isn't it the job of the President to present a budget to Congress and the job of Congress to go through that budget and decide what they will appropriate funding for and what not ? Something to do with check and balances ?
 
Democrat partisans are TERRIFIED of the Tea Party! :lamo
 
:lamo believing anything The Hill has to say about their enemies is the height of humor. Don't get out of the echo chamber much do ya?

So The Hill just made up the Pew survey?
 
Well...you have to realize, 30% of the polled public still believe that GWB was a good President....so you have to recognize that nearly 1/3 of the public out there are completely whacked out.

Kung Fu Monkey: Lunch Discussions #145: The Crazification Factor

John: Hey, Bush is now at 37% approval. I feel much less like Kevin McCarthy screaming in traffic. But I wonder what his base is --

Tyrone: 27%.

John: ... you said that immmediately, and with some authority.

Tyrone: Obama vs. Alan Keyes. Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Bat**** crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgement. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That's crazy behaviour. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population.
 
Of course everybody adheres to some ideology. Strict adherence to ideology is a completely different ball game. Everybody's goal is to get as much as they can that represents their views. At the same time...there's a
pragmatic
recognition that...you don't always get what you want. When those instances happen you to threaten to blow up the government you horse trade. Do you disagree that ANY
compromise
by a politician is used by the Tea Party on the right? Even effective politicians on the right are accused of "compromising" with the other side.
Compromise is a reality in a democratic government.
Not everybody gets what they want and punishing politicians that do their job which includes compromising creates massive amounts of dysfunction/.
So what are the answers to the questions about Obama.
Is he ideologically driven?
If not ... how would you characterize him?

Or ... if you prefer to shy away from answering those questions, how about these ...

In what way was Obama prepared to be pragmatic?
Willing to compromise such that he wouldn't get his way?
After all, I heard compromise is a reality in a democratic government.
 
Good! The Tea Party is just standard deviation away from the truthers, birthers, JFK assassination obsessives, Cleetus from the Simpson, and the crazy militia types that always die while defending their "compound"
 
So The Hill just made up the Pew survey?
Make it up? Of course not.

Let me ask you this ... suppose Pew polled using questions that asked people if they agreed or disagreed with certain positions of interest to our nation ... and those positions were generally espoused by tea party ... but PEW didn't identify them as such ... what do you think the poll results would show?
 
Well...you have to realize, 30% of the polled public still believe that GWB was a good President....so you have to recognize that nearly 1/3 of the public out there are completely whacked out.

He was better that what we have now.

biden-obama-57-states.jpg
 
So what are the answers to the questions about Obama.
Is he ideologically driven?

Yes...of course he is...everyone is to some degree.

In what way was Obama prepared to be pragmatic?
The "Grand Bargain" is the most obvious. He was asking for a conservative sacred cow (tax increases) so offered a liberal sacred cow (entitlement cuts).

Willing to compromise such that he wouldn't get his way?
Compromise is horse trading. Compromise includes you getting things you want...just not everything you want and you have to be willing to trade away things the other guy wants.

After all, I heard compromise is a reality in a democratic government.
It is...otherwise nothing happens. If every faction in the country runs around saying "We will never compromise on our core beliefs! Ever! Under no circumstance!" democracy doesn't work.
 
Yes...of course he is...everyone is to some degree.


The "Grand Bargain" is the most obvious.
He was asking for a conservative sacred cow (tax increases) so offered a liberal sacred cow (entitlement cuts).


Compromise is horse trading. Compromise includes you getting things you want...just not everything you want and you have to be willing to trade away things the other guy wants.


It is...otherwise nothing happens. If every faction in the country runs around saying "We will never compromise on our core beliefs! Ever! Under no circumstance!" democracy doesn't work.

I thought we were discussing the conflated debt/shutdown event.
We know the House passed many bills.
What was Obama offering as a compromise?
I hope you don't think Reid was rejecting everything on his own.
 
Yes...of course he is...everyone is to some degree.


The "Grand Bargain" is the most obvious. He was asking for a conservative sacred cow (tax increases) so offered a liberal sacred cow (entitlement cuts).


Compromise is horse trading. Compromise includes you getting things you want...just not everything you want and you have to be willing to trade away things the other guy wants.

It is...otherwise nothing happens
. If every faction in the country runs around saying "We will never compromise on our core beliefs! Ever! Under no circumstance!" democracy doesn't work.

And ... btw ... sometimes things happen without compromise ... that's how we got Obamacare.
 
And ... btw ... sometimes things happen without compromise ... that's how we got Obamacare.

:agree: Not counting the reasons why it seems to be so unpopular...it's going to cost more than what you had; you may not get to keep your doctor; the level of care you receive will be determined by unelected officials in DC, not your doctor; the waits to even see any doctor will increase due to the millions of new people being added to the system, while at the same time we're being warned about the looming shortage of doctors who are leaving the profession because they can't make their office payroll on what they will be paid for their services under the new plan; the exemptions being given to those who have the clout to demand, and receive, same; and on and on...

it does make people suspicious when they remember that it took threats and bribes to even get it passed by their own party! Naturally it makes people wonder WHY...since it's such a great plan?

Since miracles do happen, maybe it will eventually be reworked enough to make it palatable, but how long might that be, and how many angry complaints is it going to take before that happens? I don't know, and neither does anyone else! Odd indeed, considering that we are constantly being told it is the law now, and most of us must comply or be fined! :wow:

Good morning, Bubba. :2wave:
 
Only in the eyes of a Bush apologist......


How soon people forget.....

I have just recently recovered my nest-egg loss from the Bush era. I thought, for a moment there, the GOP/TP politicians were going to come and take it away from me again.

I swear as soon as I am old enough, I'm pulling it all out and putting it somewhere they cannot get to it!
 
The Tea Party is in it's infant stages and like all things they must start at the beginning. Jimmy Carter's presidency, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton and a current president with no qualifications are a few of the reasons a new party formed in America and perhaps after the catastrophic government shutdown this week there may be other parties forming. Time will tell.
 
:agree: Not counting the reasons why it seems to be so unpopular...it's going to cost more than what you had; you may not get to keep your doctor; the level of care you receive will be determined by unelected officials in DC, not your doctor; the waits to even see any doctor will increase due to the millions of new people being added to the system, while at the same time we're being warned about the looming shortage of doctors who are leaving the profession because they can't make their office payroll on what they will be paid for their services under the new plan; the exemptions being given to those who have the clout to demand, and receive, same; and on and on...

it does make people suspicious when they remember that it took threats and bribes to even get it passed by their own party! Naturally it makes people wonder WHY...since it's such a great plan?

Since miracles do happen,
maybe it will eventually be reworked enough to make it palatable,
but how long might that be, and how many angry complaints is it going to take before that happens? I don't know, and neither does anyone else! Odd indeed, considering that we are constantly being told it is the law now, and most of us must comply or be fined! :wow:

Good morning, Bubba. :2wave:

Everything you say is so true, Pol ... BUT ... we must remember that creating something that "works" to achieve something we would consider sensible requires a system that achieves a goal that Obamacare was never intended to achieve.
To put it another way, Obamacare is a vehicle ... not a destination.
I get a chuckle when folks describe Obama as incompetent.
He is a very clever bad guy with a whole ton of support in strategic places.
 
I thought we were discussing the conflated debt/shutdown event.
.

I was discussing why I dislike the T Party.

We know the House passed many bills.
They did
What was Obama offering as a compromise?
Nothing. Should he? Should a party that controls the house use a shutdown and debt ceiling in order to overturn major legislation that was passed through our political process? Should of House Dems in 2006 usde a shutdown in order to get out of Iraq? Should of southernors in the House band together in the 60's to overturn the civil rights Act? What kind of government do we have if calamity can be forced on everyone or we have to live by the dictates of one group in one chamber of the House? There are 32 more Republicans then Dems in the house...so you're saying that should be enough to overturn major legislation?

I hope you don't think Reid was rejecting everything on his own.
Of course not...all Dems have gotten tired of giving into House Republicans under the threat of shutdown or not raising the debt ceiling.
 
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