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Thread: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

  1. #221
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    Re: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You just said it did in your own post when I directly asked you what a NET TAXPAYER was:



    Your words.
    Your answer.
    Your claim.
    Your allegation.
    Your standard.

    You stated that a net taxpayer is someone whose tax payments are higher than the average.

    So what is the average figure that we all need to know to find out if we are net taxpayers?

    Its your standard - defend it.
    someone can easily find out what the average income tax payment is in the USA. someone can also divide all the income tax paid by the number of tax payers and come up with an average as well

    if someone pays a materially greater amount than both numbers he is most likely a NET TAX Payer.

    You attempt to denigrate the concept by pretending that if I cannot name the actual dollar amount, no such net tax payer exists. That is not a valid attack. I will not accept your parameters that are created so that you can claim no such tax payers exist. It is obvious that some people pay far more in federal taxes than they derive in benefits just as it is obvious that many people do not come close to paying for what they use-or what they COST society and the taxpayers.



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    Re: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    someone can easily find out what the average income tax payment is in the USA. .
    Since it is YOUR STANDARD and was made in YOUR CLAIM, it is incumbent upon YOU to provide that information so we all can apply YOUR STANDARD to find out if we are net taxpayers.

    Why are you unable to do this?
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    Re: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Since it is YOUR STANDARD and was made in YOUR CLAIM, it is incumbent upon YOU to provide that information so we all can apply YOUR STANDARD to find out if we are net taxpayers.

    Why are you unable to do this?
    why do you demand that I provide proof for issues I don't raise

    do you deny that some people pay more taxes to the federal government than they use in terms of cost federal services? If you disagree than you are arguing against reality. If you agree then you don't need any proof



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    Re: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is a pretty lame response. It is neither responsive nor relevant and your feigned ignorance of the election result doesn't do much for your credibility



    But you did get my point, eh?



    Who is in the White House, Who was supported by most of the voters in last year's election?



    If the GOP doesn't get its act together in about thirty years or so when the demographic change that is coming at it like a tidal wave hits it full force it will likely be reduced to a small regional party with no national power and eventually join the Whigs.

    I'm not saying that I'm wishing for this, but it does look like that's the direction that the GOP is headed in.

    And the only people who can change that are the old White men who rule the GOP.

    If you don't know where all old people will end up a lot sooner than the young people who have different ideas I advise you to go to any cemetery and take a look, sooner than anyone wishes they will be looking at the grass from the brown side, that's just a simple fact of life-the old pass away and the young take their place. That's been going on since the human race first appeared on this planet and it's not likely to change anytime soon no matter what some people on the right might wish for.




    "Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 10-21-13 at 01:26 AM.

  5. #225
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    Re: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why do you demand that I provide proof for issues I don't raise
    But you did.

    It was YOU who raised the specter of the NET TAXPAYER.
    your post 208
    Romney's agenda catered to us net tax payers.

    It was YOU who declared that the standard was they they pay more tax than average when asked how to identify what one was.

    your 217

    It is someone whose tax payments are higher than the average.
    Why do you now fail to defend your own standard?

    You have been beating this drum for a long time now and each and every time you are asked about it you NEVER have been able to provide any applicable standard so others can determine if they are a NET TAXPAYER or not. It has been that way for your posts for years now.

    Really Turtle, if you cannot come up with an applicable standard that people can use - your term has no validity whatsoever and is merely a label used for partisan or political purposes which fails to stand up to any scrutiny, criticism or examination.

    You should either work this out with an applicable formula so it actually means something or drop it now that we see what the real purpose of it is.

    you now raise this question to me

    do you deny that some people pay more taxes to the federal government than they use in terms of cost federal services?
    I will be happy to examine the data... the statistics ... the facts ... the evidence ... should you ever present it. But your question raises other questions about the honesty of the way you frame your own inquiry:

    - why are you limiting this to only federal taxes when "taxpayers" (your own term) pay taxes at various levels of government?
    - why are you limiting this to only federal services when people use citizens from various levels of government - and sometimes those services dip into to several funding pots? Education is but one such example, road funding is another.
    - how would a person determine how much value in services they are using?
    - does this computation - should you ever provide one - to determine a NET TAXPAYER stay with you for life or does it change annually or perhaps monthly or perhaps weekly or even daily as ones situation in life changes?
    - in the past you expressed eagerness to attach certain rights to the determination (should you even be able to make one) of the NET TAXPAYER such as voting rights. Are you still advocating that now?

    You se Turtle, your question cannot be answered with any accuracy if these questions are not answered.
    Last edited by haymarket; 10-21-13 at 08:27 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

    as usual, you have been given an answer and rather than discuss what was clear, you refuse to accept it. The fact is, sufficient guidance has been given for the merits of the issue to be discussed. In other words, you have what you need and I will not waste my time attempting to comply with silly requests for more information.



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    Re: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    as usual, you have been given an answer and rather than discuss what was clear, you refuse to accept it. The fact is, sufficient guidance has been given for the merits of the issue to be discussed. In other words, you have what you need and I will not waste my time attempting to comply with silly requests for more information.
    Why do you Americans hate each other so much? Those that oppose the bagger party are really on your side. Once they are eliminated the libertarian brand will have a resurgence of popularity on libertarian principles alone. Gone will be the elements of racism and hate that have perverted your label.

    And then the libertarian party will rise again to it's former prosperity and may even get a libertarian elected as president. Ya think? LOL

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    Re: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The House can only initialize funding measures that the Senate must also pass. If they don't get Senate approval that House can't fund ANYTHING. Surely you saw that very clearly when the House tried to open parts of Govt. for photo ops. They all died in the Senate.
    So what you're really saying is that your entire argument is disengenuous and that the democrats really are responsible for the government shut down. I got it.

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    Re: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    So what you're really saying is that your entire argument is disengenuous and that the democrats really are responsible for the government shut down. I got it.
    The fact that the House would not approve anything the Senate sent them makes them the ones that shut down the Govt. They failed to make a referendum with the Senate which is their job as legislators.

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    Re: Pew: Tea Party support at record low

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The fact that the House would not approve anything the Senate sent them makes them the ones that shut down the Govt. They failed to make a referendum with the Senate which is their job as legislators.
    There's nothing easier than refuting someone with their own words. Here--argue with yourself over this:

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The House can only initialize funding measures that the Senate must also pass. If they don't get Senate approval that House can't fund ANYTHING. Surely you saw that very clearly when the House tried to open parts of Govt. for photo ops. They all died in the Senate.
    I'll just pull up a chair and watch the show.

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