Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #380]

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Excon said:

Are you not paying attention?

That part of the law is inapplicable because it was added after the incident.

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Proof? Or post number if you have already given it?

Excon said:

But for entertainments sake, lets say it was in effect.
From the evidence, it does not appear she was incapacitated.
So it would be hard to prove.

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Being drunk alone means you do not have the capacity to consent. There is a difference between "incapacitated" and "lacks the capacity". Incapacitated refers to being unconscious or rendered incapable of giving consent. Lack of capacity means that you can still be conscious and even make decisions but your ability to make informed reasonable decisions is skewed.

Excon said:

Secondly, it then could be argued that he too was unable to give consent to sex.

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At which point it would come down to who initated the sex. Him or her. Considering their ages and the fact that him and his friends gave alcohol to a 14 and 13 year old that was no doubt initiated by the boys. Not to mention they had audio and video confessions.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Kal'Stang said:

Proof? Or post number if you have already given it?

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Really?
You are going to sit there and act like it isn't your responsibility to be informed of the information that has already been provided?
This is the second time. It will be the last.
Get your self informed.

Kal'Stang said:

Being drunk alone means you do not have the capacity to consent. There is a difference between "incapacitated" and "lacks the capacity". Incapacitated refers to being unconscious or rendered incapable of giving consent. Lack of capacity means that you can still be conscious and even make decisions but your ability to make informed reasonable decisions is skewed.

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And by the evidence she was neither at the time.

Kal'Stang said:

At which point it would come down to who initated the sex. Him or her. Considering their ages and the fact that him and his friends gave alcohol to a 14 and 13 year old that was no doubt initiated by the boys. Not to mention they had audio and video confessions.

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Wow! :doh

No doubt huh? Not!

Look at that uninformed assumption.
She was drinking before she left her house.
And she continued to drink on her own.
That is what teenagers do.
Just as the boys drank on their own also.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

lizzie said:

Would you not go to bat for your own daughter in the same situation? If not, then I would consider you cowardly.

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I think it is cowardly for a person excuse their own daughters actions and blame someone else when the evidence says their daughter is lying.


So again.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Excon said:

I think it is cowardly for a person excuse their own daughters actions and blame someone else when the evidence says their daughter is lying.


So again.

Lets reverse this.
Lets say is was your son in this scenario.
The evidence is that the girl lied. It was consensual and she was conscious.

Who are you going to believe?

Your son, the evidence and a Prosecutor who said it was basically nothing more than teens being teens, or some unhinged mother and lying daughter?​

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And again, you are completely missing my point.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

lizzie said:

And again, you are completely missing my point.

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Not at all.
I put your point into proper perspective as being one of emotion, not logic.

But I am sure we all know where you would stand if this was your son being falsely accused.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Excon said:

Not at all.
I put your point into proper perspective as being one of emotion, not logic.

But I am sure we all know where you would stand if this was your son being falsely accused.

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I seriously doubt you do know, but you can believe whatever you want.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

lizzie said:

I seriously doubt you do know, but you can believe whatever you want.

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Sureeeeeeeeee!
You would illogically go to bat, against the evidence, for your daughter, yet you suggest that I don't know what you would do for your son that is in accord with the evidence? Sure. Tell yourself anything you want.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

lizzie said:

Yeah, sure. Find me some rape cases which were prosecuted without victim cooperation. There may be a few, but they are rare. My point is that if I believed my daughter had been raped, it would essentially take an act of God to keep from trying to intervene on her behalf. If you think that amounts to sort of irrational diatribe, then I'd say you don't understand at all. Would you not go to bat for your own daughter in the same situation? If not, then I would consider you cowardly.

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You're veering off what you initially stated - you stated about what a person refusing to testify tells you about their situation. It doesn't tell you jack because you don't know why they're refusing to testify.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Excon said:

I think it is cowardly for a person excuse their own daughters actions and blame someone else when the evidence says their daughter is lying.

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Regarding the Daisy Coleman case specifically, you have no friggin clue what the evidence is, and because there's some reasonable cause to doubt the integrity of the original "investigation" there is perfectly sound reasons for re-opening the investigation, and trying to get to the truth of the situation without potentially biased sources leading the charge.

What's important is finding out the truth, then rendering justice.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Dragonfly said:

Regarding the Daisy Coleman case specifically, you have no friggin clue what the evidence is,

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Wrong. It is you who have no clue, as actual evidence has been noted in the discussion.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Excon said:

Wrong. It is you who have no clue, as actual evidence has been noted in the discussion.

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False. You only know what's been reported in papers.

You know nothing.

Until an independent investigation has been completed, and possibly a trial, we all know nothing.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Dragonfly said:

False. You only know what's been reported in papers.

You know nothing.

Until an independent investigation has been completed, and possibly a trial, we all know nothing.

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:doh
Wrong.
What has been reported is the evidence.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

X Factor said:

That's a whole lot of assumptions you're making there, Di. I don't agree with calling the girl names and I haven't done that, but neither do I think someone should be convicted based on a sensationalized article (that seems to have conveniently left out a lot of the less salacious details).

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Actually, I haven't made any assumptions whatsoever. There are certain facts that are indisputable: The girl was drunk to the point of unconscious throughout the evening, as witnessed by dozens of people who saw her laying naked on the floor while sexual acts were performed on her; the girl was dumped onto the front lawn of her home afterward; the family was driven out of town by threats and harassment of townsfolk; the home, which the mother still owned, was "suspiciously" burned down.

Your complaint is that nobody should be convicted based on a sensationalized article? Convicted?? Nobody will ever be convicted because despite the indisputable facts, nobody has even been charged with a crime! There will be no trial, despite myriad witnesses being willing to testify to what they saw. There wasn't even a grand jury convened to look at the facts! Everything was simply dropped, swept under a rug, the family has been destroyed, and the girl villified, suicidal, driven out of town for her own safety... and nobody ****ing cares.

Nobody will be convicted with the sexual assault of an unconscious girl, nobody will be convicted of threats and harassment toward the family, nobody will be convicted of arson in the "suspicious" fire that destroyed the family home... because nobody has been charged.

That is what chaps me. Nobody cares what happened to this girl, it's just "blame the victim" time and forget convening a grand jury to get to the actual facts and evidence of what did or did not occur.

I stand by my original post: Welcome back to the 1950's, where the powerful call the shots and victims get what they deserve. It's a travesty.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Excon said:

:doh
Wrong.
What has been reported is the evidence.

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So tell me, what will your response be if the re-opened investigation turns up "new" evidence???

Will you automatically state that the "new" stuff is all lies????

Regardless of who it shows to be telling the truth?

Or will you only support the legitimacy of the "new" evidence if it only substantiates the story told by the guy??

In your eyes - the ONLY possible truth here is that the 14 year old girl is just a lying slut, and any new evidence that might show otherwise will be lies and fabrication.
That's your position in a nut shell correct?

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Dragonfly said:

In your eyes - the ONLY possible truth here is that the 14 year old girl is just a lying slut, and any new evidence that might show otherwise will be lies and fabrication.
That's your position in a nut shell correct?

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:doh
Wtf?
Are you really not paying attention?

Dragonfly said:

So tell me, what will your response be if the re-opened investigation turns up "new" evidence???

Will you automatically state that the "new" stuff is all lies????


Regardless of who it shows to be telling the truth?

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:doh
We go with what the evidence in toto says.

Dragonfly said:

Or will you only support the legitimacy of the "new" evidence if it only substantiates the story told by the guy??

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First of all, as it stands, the evidence only substantiates what the boy says.
You can't change that.
For him to be guilty of a crime you would have to show that is was forced, as in actual rape.
The witnesses said they saw the two engaged in consensual activity and that she was not unconscious.
Do you not understand these things? That is not forced.

These witnesses would have to flip for the story to change. Which would pretty much throw their credibility out the window.
So it isn't likely to happen.


As it stands, the evidence says that she lied.
As it stands, her mother admitted that her daughter lies.
The girls credibility is shot.

The Prosecutor (Rice), is the one who has asked for them to come in because of the mere allegation of impropriety.
He isn't calling them in to second guess him, but to confirm what he concluded, to show there wasn't any impropriety. Or in other words, to quell the bs.

The review is there to show there was no malfeasance on his part.

DiAnna said:

Actually, I haven't made any assumptions whatsoever. There are certain facts that are indisputable: The girl was drunk to the point of unconscious throughout the evening, as witnessed by dozens of people who saw her laying naked on the floor while sexual acts were performed on her; the girl was dumped onto the front lawn of her home afterward; the family was driven out of town by threats and harassment of townsfolk; the home, which the mother still owned, was "suspiciously" burned down.

Your complaint is that nobody should be convicted based on a sensationalized article? Convicted?? Nobody will ever be convicted because despite the indisputable facts, nobody has even been charged with a crime! There will be no trial, despite myriad witnesses being willing to testify to what they saw. There wasn't even a grand jury convened to look at the facts! Everything was simply dropped, swept under a rug, the family has been destroyed, and the girl villified, suicidal, driven out of town for her own safety... and nobody ****ing cares.

Nobody will be convicted with the sexual assault of an unconscious girl, nobody will be convicted of threats and harassment toward the family, nobody will be convicted of arson in the "suspicious" fire that destroyed the family home... because nobody has been charged.

That is what chaps me. Nobody cares what happened to this girl, it's just "blame the victim" time and forget convening a grand jury to get to the actual facts and evidence of what did or did not occur.

I stand by my original post: Welcome back to the 1950's, where the powerful call the shots and victims get what they deserve. It's a travesty.

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You clearly do not know the evidence.
What you say is undisputed, is disputed. End of story.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Dragonfly said:

False. You only know what's been reported in papers.

You know nothing.

Until an independent investigation has been completed, and possibly a trial, we all know nothing.

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Well this is just laughable. You've "known" from the beginning of the thread that the guy is guilty. :lol:

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

lizzie said:

Other posters are not required, nor expected to understand your moods. They are also not restricted from responding however they wish, as long as it is within the rules established for the site. Most of us are grown-ups here, and can take what we dish out.

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Get him, babe. Get that mother****er.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

NoC_T said:

Get him, babe. Get that mother****er.

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Every once in awhile, the mom in me just can't be contained. :lol:

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Of course there's never, not ever, been a case where some people have protected the rapist at the expense of the victim.
Evidence has never been buried, overlook, deleted, ignored, "lost", or simply not collected.
People have never been frightened or coerced into not coming forward to shed light on situations.
Manipulation and conspiracy are never a part of reality.
There's never been a time when those in positions of authority abuse their authority and do the wrong thing.
That's only TV/Hollywood script type stuff.




[cough] Penn State [cough cough] Catholic Church [/ cough]

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Dragonfly said:

Of course there's never, not ever, been a case where some people have protected the rapist at the expense of the victim.
Evidence has never been buried, overlook, deleted, ignored, "lost", or simply not collected.
People have never been frightened or coerced into not coming forward to shed light on situations.
Manipulation and conspiracy are never a part of reality.
There's never been a time when those in positions of authority abuse their authority and do the wrong thing.
That's only TV/Hollywood script type stuff.

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First off, that plays both ways.
Secondly, in either of the two, there has to be a reason to believe such in the individual case to begin with.
The opposite has been shown here, as she can be shown to be lying.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Excon said:

First off, that plays both ways.
Secondly, in either of the two, there has to be a reason to believe such in the individual case to begin with.
The opposite has been shown here, as she can be shown to be lying.

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She can also be shown to be telling the truth.

And there's sufficient reason to suspect that the home-town football star with high political connections was being protected over the new-to-town little girl.

The football player did in fact supply alcohol to the girl.
He did screw her.
He did dump her, passed out, in freezing temperature on her front lawn and drive away.

None of that is disputed by anyone.

So there's sufficient reason to believe the girl was incapacitated during the sexual event as well.

Deny it all you want, but you're in no position to say the girl is a lying slut.

At least not until a fair and independent investigation has been completed.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Dragonfly said:

She can also be shown to be telling the truth.

And there's sufficient reason to suspect that the home-town football star with high political connections was being protected over the new-to-town little girl.

The football player did in fact supply alcohol to the girl.
He did screw her.
He did dump her, passed out, in freezing temperature on her front lawn and drive away.

None of that is disputed by anyone.

So there's sufficient reason to believe the girl was incapacitated during the sexual event as well.

Deny it all you want, but you're in no position to say the girl is a lying slut.

At least not until a fair and independent investigation has been completed.

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There was a fair investigation done. You just don't like the results.


There is no reason to believe he was being protected by anyone.
The only truth that can be confirmed as supporting her word, is that she voluntarily went to a party.
The rest of what you said was nonsense.
Deny it?
There is no denying that she lied.
She wasn't unconscious.



She willingly drank on her own, as she was doing before she went to the party.


They had conscious consensual sex.



They did not dump her unconscious.
That is nothing but speculative nonsense.

And spare me the (They shoulda, woulda, coulda, arguments), they all had been drinking, the above is not being dump by any stretch of the imagination.


The evidence is that she was not unconscious and was willing engaging in consensual activity.
And apparently is a lush.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Excon said:

There was a fair investigation done. You just don't like the results.


There is no reason to believe he was being protected by anyone.
The only truth that can be confirmed as supporting her word, is that she voluntarily went to a party.
The rest of what you said was nonsense.
Deny it?
There is no denying that she lied.
She wasn't unconscious.



She willingly drank on her own, as she was doing before she went to the party.

"In Daisy’s bedroom closet was a stash of alcohol from which both girls sipped."​

They had conscious consensual sex.

"He said, however, that he thought Barnett and the girl were only “dry humping,” a term commonly used to describe rubbing together clothed. Another teen, however, told police the video featured both Barnett and Daisy with their pants down."​

They did not dump her unconscious.
That is nothing but speculative nonsense.

Around 1 a.m., the teens slipped out a bedroom window and were met by Barnett and another boy, who drove them three miles to the Barnett house.
[...]
Around 2 a.m., the girls were driven back to the Coleman house, where, the 13-year-old said, the boys told her to go on inside, saying they would watch over Daisy outside until she sobered up.
[...]
As Daisy was carried to the car, she was crying.
[...]
the 15-year-old said the boys had left Daisy “outside sitting in 30-degree weather”​

And spare me the (They shoulda, woulda, coulda, arguments), they all had been drinking, the above is not being dump by any stretch of the imagination.


The evidence is that she was not unconscious and was willing engaging in consensual activity.
And apparently is a lush.

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You know none of what you say as an absolute truth.

Stop being an a-hole and open your eyes.


Guys have lied, cheated, and done far worse to get laid.
Historically, guys are f-ing pigs.

When it comes to sex, many guys will cross lines that most others would not consider crossing.

If you are going to sit there and say there's not even the remotest possibility that the football player didn't do something wrong that night then you are sadly ignorant of reality on many levels.

It's just damn shocking that you'd rather label the girl as a lying slut BEFORE you know the facts.

And stop with the bull feces that you know the facts. None of us know the facts.

We'll just see what the independent investigation uncovers.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Dragonfly said:

You know none of what you say as an absolute truth.

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Oy Vey!
What I have provided is the evidence.

Dragonfly said:

Stop being an a-hole and open your eyes.

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This is something you need to be telling yourself.

Dragonfly said:

Guys have lied, cheated, and done far worse to get laid.
Historically, guys are f-ing pigs.

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And there is your extreme rabid bias.
Well, the truth is that this holds true for women as well.

Dragonfly said:

When it comes to sex, many guys will cross lines that most others would not consider crossing.

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Rabidity still showing. Same holds true for women also.

Dragonfly said:

If you are going to sit there and say there's not even the remotest possibility that the football player didn't do something wrong that night then you are sadly ignorant of reality on many levels.

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No. :naughty
That would be you with your extreme rabid bias being ignorant of reality on many levels.
I am going by the evidence and the law, not emotion like you.

Dragonfly said:

It's just damn shocking that you'd rather label the girl as a lying slut BEFORE you know the facts.

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I know that facts here. I have presented them to quell your bs.

She is a liar. Her own mother admitted it. What do you not understand about that?

Secondly, where do you get off saying I labeled her a slut?
Huh?
Your saying such, is just an example of your extreme rabid bias.

The only time I even mentioned the word was in reply to an accusation you made of another.

And what I said is true.
They can be.
Even the folks who knew her better than anyone here called her such.

But not once did I label anyone such.

So can your extreme rabid biased bs.
Capice?

Dragonfly said:

And stop with the bull feces that you know the facts. None of us know the facts.

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Yes we do know facts. She is a liar, was not unconscious, and engaged in consensual activity.

And we know what was determined from the evidence in toto.


You just don't like it.

Dragonfly said:

We'll just see what the independent investigation uncovers.

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Yeah ok! :doh
:lamo:lamo:lamo




Don't hold your breath.

Re: Small Town Turns On Girl Who Was Allegedly Raped By HS Football Player [#303, #38

Dragonfly said:

You know none of what you say as an absolute truth.

Stop being an a-hole and open your eyes.


Guys have lied, cheated, and done far worse to get laid.
Historically, guys are f-ing pigs.

When it comes to sex, many guys will cross lines that most others would not consider crossing.

If you are going to sit there and say there's not even the remotest possibility that the football player didn't do something wrong that night then you are sadly ignorant of reality on many levels.

It's just damn shocking that you'd rather label the girl as a lying slut BEFORE you know the facts.

And stop with the bull feces that you know the facts. None of us know the facts.

We'll just see what the independent investigation uncovers.

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Ah that pretty much explains where you been coming from all along, doesn't it? It's hilarious you say that "none of us knows the facts" right after saying what facts are "undisputed" (and they're pretty much just what you want to believe). Why don't you just admit you've presumed him guilty from the outset and you couldn't care less about the outcome of any investigation or trial, if she alleges it, it must be true (because all men are fvcking pigs).