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Thread: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

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    Re: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    I've come down hard on the GOP as the cause of this idiotcy. That is because the way I understand, the Democrats wanted a 1.2 trillion CR and in negotiation with Republicans agreed to a 986 billion figure prior to the shutdown. Then the Republicans threw in the defunding rider derailing the agreement reached thus causing the shutdown.

    The Democrats then hollared, just give us a clean CR, apparently that is what Collins offered. A clean CR as what was demanded and pretty close to the agreement between both parties before this defunding Obamacare stupidity. It looks like the Dems won. But they want to exceed sequester. All I heard from dems during this shutdown was Obamacare was the law of the land and the Republicans should abide by it. Well sequester is also the law of the land, the democrats in return should abide by it.

    I'll have to check into this more, but it now seems until I do, that the onus for the continuing shut down is shifting from basically a solely Republican caused shutdown to a Democrart responsibility for continuing it.
    Collins didn't offer a clean CR. Just cleaner than what the GOP had been demanding.

    And the Democrats agreed to 986 billion literally months ago. The GOP reneged and demanded more. This is not how negotiations work. The GOP is to blame.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Collins didn't offer a clean CR. Just cleaner than what the GOP had been demanding.

    And the Democrats agreed to 986 billion literally months ago. The GOP reneged and demanded more. This is not how negotiations work. The GOP is to blame.
    Was the one she presented to Reid, the one Collins and Manchin worked on together to come up with? No, I think both parties are to blame, sure the republicans more so than the Democrats. But both parties have been marching in lock step toward something like this since November of 2010. Both parties attitude of my way or the highway is the main reason. Still trying to change the existing sequester law after hollaring the the ACA is the law of the land, seems a bit ingenious if not hypocritical.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Was the one she presented to Reid, the one Collins and Manchin worked on together to come up with? No, I think both parties are to blame, sure the republicans more so than the Democrats. But both parties have been marching in lock step toward something like this since November of 2010. Both parties attitude of my way or the highway is the main reason. Still trying to change the existing sequester law after hollaring the the ACA is the law of the land, seems a bit ingenious if not hypocritical.
    The Democrats agreed to the initial demands of 986 billion. This is not "my way or the highway." This is literally giving the GOP what it asked for. Then the GOP went back on their word.

    Collins new plan still includes a delay of the medical device tax. (previously was a repeal of that tax)

    This "sequester is law of the land" is a faulty new talking point. The stimulus spending was also the law of the land. Keyword: was. Both were temporary measures that have since expired. Additional point: the sequester is a budget deal. Eliminating major health care law changes is not a budget deal. The two aren't comparable in a "law of the land" fashion.

    The GOP is 100% to blame.

    Further question on this line: why should Democrats accept any of this in exchange for 10 weeks of additional government? What are the Republicans going to extort then?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You're the first person I've ever heard refer to the sequestration as "emergency" funding.
    So Deuce, going to continue to play stupid and ignore the vast majority of what I state and the actual point I make to nit pick little lines? I just want to know whether I should bother actually having a discussion with you or just go ram my head against a wall? Because if you want to keep playing dumb and deflecting, I'll just go with the Wall as that way I'm not wasting time THINKING it's actually interested in engaging in discussion.

    Notice the only time I described the sequestration as emergency funds was in the first post I made, placing it in quotes around it that, along with the context, should've made it clear it was not being literal but more highlighting that both Sequestration and The Stimulus were similar in that they were implied to be temporary actions done in response to a serious situation needing immediate action....the staggered economy for Stimulus, and the inability of Congress to come to a deal regarding spending with regards to sequestration.

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    Re: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Keyword: was. Both were temporary measures that have since expired.
    Exactly. However, despite Stimulus "expiring"...the congresses's inability to pass a REAL budget and thus doing CR's and bills similar to CR's basically utilized the spending levels under the *temporary measure* of Stimulus as the new "baseline" for which to continue to fund the government at. Attempting to make Sequestration levels a new baseline is no less legitimate or reasonable than when the same general thing was done with regards to Stimulus.

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    Re: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The Democrats agreed to the initial demands of 986 billion. This is not "my way or the highway." This is literally giving the GOP what it asked for. Then the GOP went back on their word.

    Collins new plan still includes a delay of the medical device tax. (previously was a repeal of that tax)

    This "sequester is law of the land" is a faulty new talking point. The stimulus spending was also the law of the land. Keyword: was. Both were temporary measures that have since expired. Additional point: the sequester is a budget deal. Eliminating major health care law changes is not a budget deal. The two aren't comparable in a "law of the land" fashion.

    The GOP is 100% to blame.

    Further question on this line: why should Democrats accept any of this in exchange for 10 weeks of additional government? What are the Republicans going to extort then?
    IMO it is die hard attitudes such as stated that has lead to the situation we are in. Politics is the art of the possible. Compromise, give and take, not being afraid to take a little if continuing the battle means you lose the whole lot. No, both parties have played hard nose party politics with this country from the get go or at least back to january of 2011. You're right about the beginning or the start of this shut down belongs to the Republicans. Their stupidity in an attempt to achieve something that wasn't going to happen caused or started this. Now if it continues, it seems IMO the blame is shifting.

    It is true that the republican House passed a lot of bills with stuff in them that was totally unpalatable to the democrats in the senate. But the senate has the power to add, delete and change any of those bills. Reid chose to table them making the Republicans mad instead of following the old time and true ways of addition, deletion and change. This made the republicans mad in the senate that their bills would not be brought up to be debated or voted on. Filibusters then reigned galore. Which came first, I don't know, but both parties went out of their way to obstruct the other. It boiled down the Reid and his Democratic senate telling the House my way or the highway and guess what, the house said the same thing back to Reid.

    One last thing, the Democrats love the fact that this shut down and the antics of the house has caused them to drop from 30% of the electorate to 20% as far as who identifies with them. Mean while the Democrats have dropped from 35% to 30% and seem to be extremely happy to accept that drop as long as the Republicans drop more. Neither party is paying attention to the fact that those who abandoned or left both parties didn't go to the other party, they chose to become independents, indies rose from 36% to an all time high of 47%.

    Read into that what you will, but I will tell you this, I am sick and tired of our elected officials being republicans and democrats instead of Americans. I hope they continue to after each other throats until their support drops to almost nil and we put those two supposedly majority parties on the trash heap of history. Both sure deserve it. Playing political games with this country future is plain ignorant IMO.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So Deuce, going to continue to play stupid and ignore the vast majority of what I state and the actual point I make to nit pick little lines? I just want to know whether I should bother actually having a discussion with you or just go ram my head against a wall? Because if you want to keep playing dumb and deflecting, I'll just go with the Wall as that way I'm not wasting time THINKING it's actually interested in engaging in discussion.

    Notice the only time I described the sequestration as emergency funds was in the first post I made, placing it in quotes around it that, along with the context, should've made it clear it was not being literal but more highlighting that both Sequestration and The Stimulus were similar in that they were implied to be temporary actions done in response to a serious situation needing immediate action....the staggered economy for Stimulus, and the inability of Congress to come to a deal regarding spending with regards to sequestration.
    Posts this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Exactly. However, despite Stimulus "expiring"...the congresses's inability to pass a REAL budget and thus doing CR's and bills similar to CR's basically utilized the spending levels under the *temporary measure* of Stimulus as the new "baseline" for which to continue to fund the government at. Attempting to make Sequestration levels a new baseline is no less legitimate or reasonable than when the same general thing was done with regards to Stimulus.
    And then does it.

    However, my issue is not with the GOP demanding continued sequestration levels. It's the reneging on their original deal and then adding a bunch of other bull****. And then asking for further cuts on top of the original deal, all "in exchange" for a few weeks of continued government function. All the while bitching that Democrats aren't negotiating.

    They own this. 100%.
    Last edited by Deuce; 10-14-13 at 06:49 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    My thoughts would be that the President and Democrats claim that Obamacare is the law of the land and law should not be negotiated as part of the budget and/or debt ceiling discussions. Well, seems to me that the Sequestration is also the law of the land and if the Democrats and the President want that to be part of any deal, then Obamacare is on the cutting block too.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The Democrats agreed to the initial demands of 986 billion. This is not "my way or the highway." This is literally giving the GOP what it asked for. Then the GOP went back on their word.

    Collins new plan still includes a delay of the medical device tax. (previously was a repeal of that tax)

    This "sequester is law of the land" is a faulty new talking point. The stimulus spending was also the law of the land. Keyword: was. Both were temporary measures that have since expired. Additional point: the sequester is a budget deal. Eliminating major health care law changes is not a budget deal. The two aren't comparable in a "law of the land" fashion.

    The GOP is 100% to blame.

    Further question on this line: why should Democrats accept any of this in exchange for 10 weeks of additional government? What are the Republicans going to extort then?
    "Sequester" still is the law of the land that still requires additional cuts to planned increases in government spending. "Was" is incorrect. But now the democrats want to change the "law of the land". No problem in that per say, as it is in fact how business gets done in congress most of the time. Just because many liberals have egg on their faces (as usual) for saying such silly things is no need in falsely claiming "sequester" is a thing of the past.

    To answer this question of yours, "why should Democrats accept any of this in exchange for 10 weeks of additional government?". Well for starters it would reopen all the government that the Democrats shut down.
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    Re: Government Shutdown Negotiations Stuck On Sequestration

    the senate leadership are close on making a deal

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...ring-deal.html

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