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Obama Rejects Latest House GOP Offer

Magically? I think the Republicans generally err on the side of big business and the left on the side of social justice, yes they both spend our money freely. I can go with the both sides suck routine, but only so far.
TheNextEra said:
Take a look at all the indicators you want, the Dems and Reps (presidency and in congress) have failed us. Neither side is clean, so it's rather pathetic to see one side or the other claim some "morality" in spending or government control. Both sides use big government for the things THEY want and BOTH sides spend like mad.

When the right is in charge, they spend while the left complains and when the left is in charge they spend while the right complains.

So please tell me how one side is magically "moral" on spending or getting rid of big government.
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TheNextEra said:
The debt and spending has been going up by EACH presidency. Bush doubled Clinton's debt, Obama's doubled Bush's debt. Somewhere in there before Reagan tripled the debt.

So what does it tell you when EACH presiency that the debt has gone up regardless of whether it was a Dem or Republican president? Sounds to me like both parties suck.
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Exactly, both parties have walked hand in hand in running up the debt. Each blames the other. Reagan could have run up his debt without the Tip O'Neil and the Democratic Controlled House going along. Bush the first is the same, Democrats in congress first had to approve the debt and spending. Clinton and a Republican brought some fiscal responsibility to the scene, but Bush the second once again exploded the debt and Obama has let of two or three explosions in increasing it.

But we are stuck in the mind frame of Republicans pointing fingers and blaming solely the Democrats and the Democrats blame solely the Republicans when the truth is the debt couldn't have been run up like it was and is without the cooperation of both parties. Both have real dirty hands and no soap in the world will be able to clense them.
 
mak2 said:
The Tea Party has demonized everyone and everything that disagrees with them. I think if either party used those words the other would appropriately accuse them of plagiarism. I dont think "othering" everyone that even slightly disagrees with you is very American. Notice how you refer to Demo's as the "faithful?" Exactly where and when does the Leftys assert people are weak and stupid? Unfettered capitalism would destroy this country far quicker than social programs. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for big business...
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Nobody is calling for "unfettered" capitalism and I don't think anyone ever has in a serious forum of ideas.

The Democrat faithful are the folks that attend Obama rallies. The TEA Party faithful are those that attend TEA Party rallies. There is no aspersion cast by calling someone "faithful".

Assuming that a person will fail is assuming that they are weak. John Wooden said, may not have authored, that the worst thing you can do to anyone is to do something for them that they can and should do for themselves. It is easy to say that a person needs help, so let's all pitch in and help, but the key to strengthening any individual is to teach them to accept that the key to anyone's life happiness is found through hard work and careful planning.

Where is the message or the messenger in the Democrat Party that preaches constantly that hard work and careful planning are important in everyone's life? I can't think of any.

Where is the message or the messenger in the Democrat party that preaches that the ills of the afflicted are founded in the success of others? Pretty much describes the entire party and all of its leaders.

http://www.uclabruins.com/fls/30500...amid-of-success-worksheet.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=30500
 
mak2 said:
Magically? I think the Republicans generally err on the side of big business and the left on the side of social justice, yes they both spend our money freely. I can go with the both sides suck routine, but only so far.
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Well please by all means show me how both parties don't suck given our current economical and political environment we have now.
 
TheNextEra said:
The debt and spending has been going up by EACH presidency. Bush doubled Clinton's debt, Obama's doubled Bush's debt. Somewhere in there before Reagan tripled the debt.

So what does it tell you when EACH presiency that the debt has gone up regardless of whether it was a Dem or Republican president? Sounds to me like both parties suck.
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They do.

What might be the solution to the rising debt?
 
It stops at the point of the object of their concern. I think the RW sucks more (implying both do suck) because its only concern is corporations. A country is its people, not just the ones with enough money to buy politicians.
TheNextEra said:
Well please by all means show me how both parties don't suck given our current economical and political environment we have now.
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Perotista said:
Exactly, both parties have walked hand in hand in running up the debt. Each blames the other. Reagan could have run up his debt without the Tip O'Neil and the Democratic Controlled House going along. Bush the first is the same, Democrats in congress first had to approve the debt and spending. Clinton and a Republican brought some fiscal responsibility to the scene, but Bush the second once again exploded the debt and Obama has let of two or three explosions in increasing it.

But we are stuck in the mind frame of Republicans pointing fingers and blaming solely the Democrats and the Democrats blame solely the Republicans when the truth is the debt couldn't have been run up like it was and is without the cooperation of both parties. Both have real dirty hands and no soap in the world will be able to clense them.
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:agree: As you have stated previously, Party loyalty seems to have taken over, and pushed the "good of the country" out the door. I don't see that changing until we drop off the cliff, either, so I guess we're stuck in this miserable rut until reality takes over! Why can't people see this? :thumbdown:

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:
 
polgara said:
:agree: As you have stated previously, Party loyalty seems to have taken over, and pushed the "good of the country" out the door. I don't see that changing until we drop off the cliff, either, so I guess we're stuck in this miserable rut until reality takes over! Why can't people see this? :thumbdown:

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:
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And a fine morning to you Pol, I'll once again be in and out. As of this moment, the question is who will become known as the next Hubert Hoover? The present president or the one to follow him. We will fall into that abyss, it is just a question of when interest rates rise toward normal and the amount of money Washington keeps on borrowing come to that apex point as to when the fall will take place. Not if, but when.
 
polgara said:
:agree: As you have stated previously, Party loyalty seems to have taken over, and pushed the "good of the country" out the door. I don't see that changing until we drop off the cliff, either, so I guess we're stuck in this miserable rut until reality takes over! Why can't people see this? :thumbdown:

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:
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Historically, reality usually comes in the form of a tremendous amount of pain, and can take generations to manifest fully. In my honest fully informed opinion, the US is past any point where we can right the ship without a great deal of pain and suffering. The ideological divide is so great that one cannot span a bridge long enough, nor architecturally sound enough to bring it together. Things that we all should agree on regardless of party affiliation or ideology seem impassable, life-altering compromises for the pols. Things like passing a budget are among the most basic, most reasonable things we as citizens should expect from a government for its very function, yet, we haven't had one in a quite some time. First off let me disclose that I am one of those crazy loons that not only does not buy the narrative that the government will default on its promises but that it is an absolute lie, and it's being reported in lock-step by all media sources as a form of intimidation. The truth is that the US government will not default on its debts, and it could never happen, it won't happen and it will not happen even if government is shut down for good. The really reason pols want this mess dealt with as fast as politically viable is that they, NONE of them want to see just how bloated our government really is. If we see that our federal government can function with relative ease in the face of our shutdown, it begs some very serious questions; questions that should be asked of all citizens, and regardless of political rancor.


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
Historically, reality usually comes in the form of a tremendous amount of pain, and can take generations to manifest fully. In my honest fully informed opinion, the US is past any point where we can right the ship without a great deal of pain and suffering. The ideological divide is so great that one cannot span a bridge long enough, nor architecturally sound enough to bring it together. Things that we all should agree on regardless of party affiliation or ideology seem impassable, life-altering compromises for the pols. Things like passing a budget are among the most basic, most reasonable things we as citizens should expect from a government for its very function, yet, we haven't had one in a quite some time. First off let me disclose that I am one of those crazy loons that not only does not buy the narrative that the government will default on its promises but that it is an absolute lie, and it's being reported in lock-step by all media sources as a form of intimidation. The truth is that the US government will not default on its debts, and it could never happen, it won't happen and it will not happen even if government is shut down for good. The really reason pols want this mess dealt with as fast as politically viable is that they, NONE of them want to see just how bloated our government really is. If we see that our federal government can function with relative ease in the face of our shutdown, it begs some very serious questions; questions that should be asked of all citizens, and regardless of political rancor.


Tim-
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Excellent post! :thumbs: I fully agree with you. People really do need to learn how to take care of themselves and their families, because the government will look out for their interests FIRST, as we've seen, and the shock and suffering of the rest of the country will be impossible to imagine. It's not too late yet, but it soon might be. Then the hue and cry will be..."why weren't we warned?" :thumbsdown:

Greetings, Hicup. :2wave:
 
polgara said:
Excellent post! :thumbs: I fully agree with you. People really do need to learn how to take care of themselves and their families, because the government will look out for their interests FIRST, as we've seen, and the shock and suffering of the rest of the country will be impossible to imagine. It's not too late yet, but it soon might be. Then the hue and cry will be..."why weren't we warned?" :thumbsdown:

Greetings, Hicup. :2wave:
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Thanks, and greetings to you too. :)

Tim-
 
TheNextEra said:
So there has been NO debt under a GOP president? Funny how when there is a GOP president, the right was the one saying raise the debt ceiling. Amazing how that works.
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Many of us were not happy, at all, and vocal against the amount of spending under GW.

But to be intellectually honest, you have to admit the debt has jumped to a whole 'nother level under the current president. GW looks like an amateur compared to the boob when it comes to that.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Many of us were not happy, at all, and vocal against the amount of spending under GW.

But to be intellectually honest, you have to admit the debt has jumped to a whole 'nother level under the current president. GW looks like an amateur compared to the boob when it comes to that.
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GWB Doubled the debt from when Clinton had and Obama has doubled the debt from GWB. As for you and others being "vocal" about it, I call Bull****. Many of YOU and others voted for Bush AGAIN despite his actions. So, your being "vocal" did nothing and your ultimate support at the polls showed your support of Bush's spending. As I said before you and others complain about Dems spending, yet when a Republican does it you vote for him again. Typical hypocrites.
 
cpwill said:
Ozymandias%2B3.jpg


There was an interesting bit by Mark Levin a while back about how the emotional basis for much of conservatism was gratitude - gratitude for what we had been passed down, gratitude for what had carefully been built up for so long to get us where we are, and that the emotional basis for much of liberalism was anger - anger at what was still wrong, anger at perceived unfairness or injustice, and that much of the conflict between the two stemmed from the fact that, in their anger to tear at perceived injustice, liberals often tore at what conservatives were grateful for.

Civilization is fragile. It takes but one generation to wreck.
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Yes, conservatives were so grateful with Bush and his spending they voted for him twice. Many on the right, just as with many on the left, are such hypocrites. When a Republican is in charge the right excuses the spending with VOTES, while the left complains. Then when a Dem is in charge the left excuses the spending with VOTES, while the right complains.

The conservatives that "say" they were against Bush's spending rewarded him with a second term by voting for him. The right side of the isle is no better than the left. Just two sides of the same coin. There are republicans AND conservatives that don't mind the government intervening and spending on big government as long as it is for what THEY want. They may say they don't like the spending, yet their votes when their guy is in charge says something COMPLETELY different.
 
mak2 said:
It stops at the point of the object of their concern. I think the RW sucks more (implying both do suck) because its only concern is corporations. A country is its people, not just the ones with enough money to buy politicians.
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No, their other concern is "morality" and they don't mind using big government to achieve those means. Again, not saying the left doesn't do it with their sacred cows, but to suggest is is only one side is incorrect. BOTH sides are corrupt.
 
TheNextEra said:
GWB Doubled the debt from when Clinton had and Obama has doubled the debt from GWB. As for you and others being "vocal" about it, I call Bull****. Many of YOU and others voted for Bush AGAIN despite his actions. So, your being "vocal" did nothing and your ultimate support at the polls showed your support of Bush's spending. As I said before you and others complain about Dems spending, yet when a Republican does it you vote for him again. Typical hypocrites.
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There's always that old joke about the guy who had his wallet stolen and the thief was using his credit cards. However, the spending by the thief was less than by his wife, so he didn't report the theft.

Bush did spend money like a sailor on the three day leave, but obama spends money like a pimp with three days to live.

At least with Bush, the magnitude of the theft was not as bad. It's the difference of getting bit to death by pigs or eaten by lions. Either way you end up dead. With the pigs you get to watch the spectacle for a longer period before you die.
 
code1211 said:
There's always that old joke about the guy who had his wallet stolen and the thief was using his credit cards. However, the spending by the thief was less than by his wife, so he didn't report the theft.

Bush did spend money like a sailor on the three day leave, but obama spends money like a pimp with three days to live.

At least with Bush, the magnitude of the theft was not as bad. It's the difference of getting bit to death by pigs or eaten by lions. Either way you end up dead. With the pigs you get to watch the spectacle for a longer period before you die.
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Point being the spending under Clinton was less than Bush. The majority of the right voted for Bush twice despite the increase in spending. The left is now making the excuses for Obama. Either way, BOTH sides continue to increase spending, increase the government size and scope with each administration. The fact is both sides are hypocritical and both sides are not to be trusted.
 
TheNextEra said:
Point being the spending under Clinton was less than Bush. The majority of the right voted for Bush twice despite the increase in spending. The left is now making the excuses for Obama. Either way, BOTH sides continue to increase spending, increase the government size and scope with each administration. The fact is both sides are hypocritical and both sides are not to be trusted.
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Is it also fair to say the the majority of those increases are related to wars, defense, security for both Bush and Obama? It doesn't seem to me like entitlements are the problem, it seems to me we just may not need quite so much going to the IMC.
 
TheNextEra said:
GWB Doubled the debt from when Clinton had and Obama has doubled the debt from GWB. As for you and others being "vocal" about it, I call Bull****. Many of YOU and others voted for Bush AGAIN despite his actions. So, your being "vocal" did nothing and your ultimate support at the polls showed your support of Bush's spending. As I said before you and others complain about Dems spending, yet when a Republican does it you vote for him again. Typical hypocrites.
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Hey, better check your blood pressure there, before you blow a gasket, dude. I can see punching that pedal to clear out all the clogged up carbon you surely got backed up in your thinking pipes, but you might just hurt yourself.

Yep, you confirmed everything I said...GW in 8 years may have doubled Clinton's 8 years, sure. However, we got that with the boob in just 4...

Whole 'nother level...


And here's something you may not know about hypocrisy... its usually the one who cries this, accusing others first, that is the true hyocrite...

So...I 'll just put it forward, wonder how many of you, including yourself, voted for Obama twice...huh? Who is that real hypocrite again???
 
TheNextEra said:
Point being the spending under Clinton was less than Bush. The majority of the right voted for Bush twice despite the increase in spending. The left is now making the excuses for Obama. Either way, BOTH sides continue to increase spending, increase the government size and scope with each administration. The fact is both sides are hypocritical and both sides are not to be trusted.
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That is true.

The Republicans spend money in amounts that are hard to imagine.

The Democrats spend money in amounts that are double that of the Republicans.

From about 2000 to about 2012, the amount of money spent by the Feds annually doubled. I don't feel like they are dong a job that is twice as good or producing twice as much infrastructure improvement or helping to educate, heal or inspire twice as many people.

From 2012 onward, the Sequester has been in force so as a population, we have that going for us. It will be in force to the end of the decade unless they do something to screw that up, too.

Laughably, Obama proposed this as a poison pill that the Republicans would reject and they accepted it. Reality is priceless!

In the chart below, the Debt increase under obama is understated by about 3 join on 4 Trillion dollars because it's 3 years old. There can't be anyone that is unimpressed by this.

US_Public_Debt_Ceiling_1981-2010.jpg
 
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code1211 said:
That is true.

The Republicans spend money in amounts that are hard to imagine.

The Democrats spend money in amounts that are double that of the Republicans.

From about 2000 to about 2012, the amount of money spent by the Feds annually doubled. I don't feel like they are dong a job that is twice as good or producing twice as much infrastructure improvement or helping to educate, heal or inspire twice as many people.

From 2012 onward, the Sequester has been in force so as a population, we have that going for us. It will be in force to the end of the decade unless they do something to screw that up, too.

Laughably, Obama proposed this as a poison pill that the Republicans would reject and they accepted it. Reality is priceless!
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An 800 billion dollar defense cut is anything but laughable to Republicans and there's more to come if they keep pushing. That cash cow is still too big.

Obama-Lowest-Spender-300x200.jpg
 
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iguanaman said:
An 800 billion dollar defense cut is anything but laughable to Republicans and there's more to come if they keep pushing. That cash cow is still too big.

Obama-Lowest-Spender-300x200.jpg
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I heard on NPR a few weeks back that 40% of all military spending is spent by the USA. The rest of the world splits the other 60%.

We probably have a little room to draw back.

Do we really need 11 full carrier task force groups when we have a guy in the White house that simple refuses to use them anyway? Could have used a plane or two in Benghazi.

Does your chart work in percents when the 2009 deficit was about 4 times the size of the previous averages?
 
cantor continues to mastermiond the shutdown, as he did with the rule change on Oct. 1st..
 
code1211 said:
I heard on NPR a few weeks back that 40% of all military spending is spent by the USA. The rest of the world splits the other 60%.

We probably have a little room to draw back.

Do we really need 11 full carrier task force groups when we have a guy in the White house that simple refuses to use them anyway? Could have used a plane or two in Benghazi.

Does your chart work in percents when the 2009 deficit was about 4 times the size of the previous averages?
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Why do we have troops in Germany? What are they doing there other than playing games?
 
TheNextEra said:
Yes, conservatives were so grateful with Bush and his spending they voted for him twice. Many on the right, just as with many on the left, are such hypocrites. When a Republican is in charge the right excuses the spending with VOTES, while the left complains. Then when a Dem is in charge the left excuses the spending with VOTES, while the right complains.

The conservatives that "say" they were against Bush's spending rewarded him with a second term by voting for him. The right side of the isle is no better than the left. Just two sides of the same coin. There are republicans AND conservatives that don't mind the government intervening and spending on big government as long as it is for what THEY want. They may say they don't like the spending, yet their votes when their guy is in charge says something COMPLETELY different.
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:yawn:

No thanks. I'm done whacking strawmen for the day.
 
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