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California's brown signs bill permitting non-physician abortions [W:307]

Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Which means it is the state that sets the standards for when and where an abortion can be performed. This is the part you are missing. Whether or not the FDA has approved medicines for that procedure is irrelevant to who governs the procedure.

100% false as already proven, the FDA could do something tomorrow and the state would have to abide and could totally destroy this bill. like i said you and post 199 is factually wrong.
nothing as changed no matter how much you try to deflect, post 199 is factually wrong.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Yes, obviously the fda not approving a drug means people will not be able to prescribe it, but that would be a rather nebulous point if we were discussing the delivery of medical care here. Which we are ...

and nothing changes the FDA could do something that kills that bill tomorrow and all your original points are still complete failures
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

You keep citing the fact as if it undermines our arguments ...

nope thats what you keep making up in your mind, this is common for you
you "arguments" are undermined by the fact that destroy them
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

100% false as already proven, the FDA could do something tomorrow and the state would have to abide and could totally destroy this bill. like i said you and post 199 is factually wrong.
nothing as changed no matter how much you try to deflect, post 199 is factually wrong.

You're just completely wrong here. Factually.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

1.)No
2.) it lessens state requirements on the performance of an abortion, as it is state law that governs the procedure, not the FDA.
3.) What "medical/science orgs"?
4.)All this means is that the state has removed the state's restrictions on abortion.
5.)No-one claimed anything new was created.
6.) What is claimed, and is true, is that California has lessened restrictions on abortion.
7.)Allowing anyone other than an MD to perform medical procedures is increasing the risk in that procedure...not improving it.

1.) yes
2.) state requirements are meaningless and not based on medical/science community. I only care about medical standards as do people who need medical care.
3.) the many listed in this thread, find it
4.) correcting allowing the medical community to do its job and not get in the way of that
5,) actually you did would you like me to quote you, why do you lie so much?
6.) yes STATE restrictions on medical care which is meaningless cause it wasnt based on medicine/science
7.) false on the topic we are talking about here says the studies already done and link in this this thread and the medical/science community

care for specific first trimester abortions are now not being interrupted and its a procedures factually safer than giving birth itself, weird though i dont see you posting about that which further exposes your biased.

unless of course you are saying you want this law reinstated and it to also apply to medical works delivering a baby?

please continue exposing your biased because its highly entertaining
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Indeed. You can argue that the extra precaution is unnecessary or overly burdensome, like I stated in my first few posts. But what you can't do is equate the same level of proficiency and training (safety) between doctors and PA, NP, MW, RN, etc

of course you can for this topic since studies prove it and we are talking procedures factually more safe than giving birth.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

100% false as already proven, the FDA could do something tomorrow and the state would have to abide and could totally destroy this bill. like i said you and post 199 is factually wrong.
nothing as changed no matter how much you try to deflect, post 199 is factually wrong.

again, no one is disagreeing that the FDA has authority over approval and scheduling. Administering them is something that falls understate control though, through the state health board
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Exactly, and I am pessimistic enough to know that some people will jump at the chance to make a buck here, with the minimum required training. I see some "enterprising" RNs viewing a few power-points, taking a test, and becoming licensed to perform abortions.

just like those same people do for delivering babies too right? something with more risks then the procedures begin discussed.
but i bet you think thats ok lol
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

and nothing changes the FDA could do something that kills that bill tomorrow and all your original points are still complete failures

but you claimed the FDA over saw administration of these pharmaceuticals in the relationship between a doctor and patient. That was wrong. Now your citing a point no one disagreed with and that doesn't change the nature of your error on the former
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

You will notice most people started defending this on the basis on any doubt was fueled by an interest in restricting abortions, and this continued regardless how much anyone stressed the issue of patient safety. So clearly concern about ideology trumping legitimate safety issues are more than warranted

thats because the argument of patient safety has been proven a failure

this doesn't make these procedures less safe and since giving birth is a higher risk then this procedure its double loss

what i notice is people crying about this and trying to use the transparent dishonest cover of safety but yet no one is worried about who is allowed to help with giving birth, something with more risk.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

nope thats what you keep making up in your mind, this is common for you
you "arguments" are undermined by the fact that destroy them

No, you obviously offered numerous times as a rebuttal.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

You're just completely wrong here. Factually.

weird, i have facts on my side and remind me what you have again? thats right nothing
post 199 was factually proven false
it was also a complete knee jerk, biased hyperbolic failure that got destroyed and provided me with much entertainment
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

of course you can for this topic since studies prove it and we are talking procedures factually more safe than giving birth.

No, you really can't. All such studies would do is indicate the extre-level of training wasn't neccasary. The doctor would still be better trained and more proficent as a general rule, due to their more extensive education, vocational training, and oversight. That is why the law stresses that PA, RN, etc would be poerforming under the authority of a doctor

<<< In order to perform an abortion by aspiration techniques pursuant to Section 2253, a person with a license or certificate to practice as a nurse practitioner or a certified nurse-midwife shall adhere to standardized procedures developed in compliance with subdivision (c) of Section 2725 that specify all of the following:
*****(1) The extent of supervision by a physician and surgeon with
relevant training and expertise.*****>>>
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

just like those same people do for delivering babies too right? something with more risks then the procedures begin discussed.
but i bet you think thats ok lol

I would have the same problem with a state that allowed mechanics to deliver them, yup. .
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Just a couple of relevant portions from the LA Times article.
Gov. Jerry Brown signs bill to increase access to abortions - latimes.com

So basically it's not "back alley abortions" it's nurse practitioners...and studies have shown that abortions provided by them are just as safe as those practiced by physicians.

No that is just how progressives use language... Progressives will NEVER call an idea what it is - they will throw a positive spin on concepts using friendly trigger words like "increased access to abortions"

You fool no one with your language...
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

thats because the argument of patient safety has been proven a failure

this doesn't make these procedures less safe and since giving birth is a higher risk then this procedure its double loss

what i notice is people crying about this and trying to use the transparent dishonest cover of safety but yet no one is worried about who is allowed to help with giving birth, something with more risk.

The comparison is not a nurse providing and abortion to a woman giving birth. The comparison is a nurse providing abortion to a doctor providing abortion.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

again, no one is disagreeing that the FDA has authority over approval and scheduling. Administering them is something that falls understate control though, through the state health board

like my example already proved the FDA has effects in that area too, you keep repeating this and it changes anythign i actually said
the FDA could totally make the bill irrelevant tomorrow

its funny watching you always move the goal post though

first was the failed safety argument
then the failed questions of the medical professional
then the failed questioning of the bill
then the failed questioning of medical professional scope
now you are trying to make it something about the state that doesnt matter to any of it


just stop, take a deep breath and tell me what your brand new argument is that probably is arguing for or against

cant wait to see you actually stick to ONE thing instead of the failed deflection and spaghetti at the wall tactic even though it is always funny.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

weird, i have facts on my side and remind me what you have again? thats right nothing
post 199 was factually proven false
it was also a complete knee jerk, biased hyperbolic failure that got destroyed and provided me with much entertainment

all these self congratulatory posts do is paint you as someone with confidence issues who can't let his remarks stand on their own merit. It's like a fat kid constantly flexing in the mirror talking about how he's a big-boned beef cake
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

The comparison is not a nurse providing and abortion to a woman giving birth. The comparison is a nurse providing abortion to a doctor providing abortion.

Not to mention, I stated that i thought the Mid-wife system was archaic back in the beginning of this discussion
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

1.) but you claimed the FDA over saw administration of these pharmaceuticals in the relationship between a doctor and patient. That was wrong.
2.) Now your citing a point no one disagreed with and that doesn't change the nature of your error on the former

1.)nope never said that een once why do you make up so much in your head and it keep failing, its afailed strawman you are trying
i said they make regulations that effect that area
2.) nope i replied to what you tried to accuse me off and you were wrong then like you are now thats what so funny

only error was yours and the thread proves that fact.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

like my example already proved the FDA has effects in that area too

having an impact in the area isn't the same as having a direct authority into it, like you originally suggested
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

No, you obviously offered numerous times as a rebuttal.

nope not once, it was a response to failed strawmen
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

No, you really can't. All such studies would do is indicate the extre-level of training wasn't neccasary. The doctor would still be better trained and more proficent as a general rule, due to their more extensive education, vocational training, and oversight. That is why the law stresses that PA, RN, etc would be poerforming under the authority of a doctor

<<< In order to perform an abortion by aspiration techniques pursuant to Section 2253, a person with a license or certificate to practice as a nurse practitioner or a certified nurse-midwife shall adhere to standardized procedures developed in compliance with subdivision (c) of Section 2725 that specify all of the following:
*****(1) The extent of supervision by a physician and surgeon with
relevant training and expertise.*****>>>

you keep stating that and it changes nothing, the medical community and studies factually disagree with you and your meaningless, topically uneducated opinion.
Ill stick with their facts
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

I would have the same problem with a state that allowed mechanics to deliver them, yup. .

thats what i thought, i knew you wouldn't commit because you know it exposes your biased lol you only care about this because it gives access to abortion and no other reason. thanks for proving it.

so you are ok with these same people delivering babies eventhough its a procedure with MORE risk?
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

The comparison is not a nurse providing and abortion to a woman giving birth. The comparison is a nurse providing abortion to a doctor providing abortion.

actually that is the compassion and you continuing to run from it exposes you


these people are already allowed to provide medical care for giving birth, a procedure with MORE risk. You are ok with that
now those same people are allowed to provide medical care for abortions, a procedure with LESS risk. This hurts your feelings and you are being dishonesty acting like you are worried about saftey/money making.

you are thoroughly exposesed
you lose to facts again
 
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