• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

California's brown signs bill permitting non-physician abortions [W:307]

Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

iguanaman said:
Is that your problem with them? Women making decisions about women instead of men making them?
Click to expand...

A woman's decision to complete the acts necessary to become pregnant wasn't made by just her. Somewhere along the line a man had to be part of the decision making process. So it is completely unreasonable for her to be allowed to make a decision to murder the mans child on her own. The man is just as much responsible for her pregnancy as she is. And any court of law will verify that. Men are required to pay child support (as they should be) for their part of the decision making process that resulted in a woman's pregnancy.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Gaugingcatenate said:
?..

...if a fail safe system were devised to totally prevent unwanted pregnancy in the future, ... could one deign to perceive that there may, indeed, be an elimination of abortion altogether?

Just saying...
Click to expand...

Will rape be eliminated ?

Will all pregnancies be complication free with no risk to the woman's long term health or life?

Will all serious fetal abnormalities be eliminated?

I would also love to live in a perfect world be we are nowhere near being there.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Gaugingcatenate said:
Sorry, but just a personal pet peeve of mine with people using absolutes that, in most cases, are incorrect. I understand your point, but the absolute makes it unlikely to actually be provable truth.

So, should the sun suddenly burn out, or if man killed off all life on the planet, or more probably, if a fail safe system were devised to totally prevent unwanted pregnancy in the future, under none of those conditions could one deign to perceive that there may, indeed, be an elimination of abortion altogether?

Just saying...
Click to expand...

In that case, you're right. Abortions would be ended with the end of the human race. What I should have said was that outlawing abortions is not going to end the practice.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Dittohead not! said:
Your opinion that abortion is "killing babies" is not a religious one? Really?
Click to expand...

Correct. Except for weddings and funerals, I haven't been to church in 40+ years. But I am a hard core believer in the Constitution of the US and am very supportive of religious freedoms and rights.

Religion can be a guide for morals but it's not the only guide. Leftists make so many mistakes, assuming religion always has something to do with preventing murder of babies is just one of them.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

ItAin'tFree said:
Correct. Except for weddings and funerals, I haven't been to church in 40+ years. But I am a hard core believer in the Constitution of the US and am very supportive of religious freedoms and rights.

Religion can be a guide for morals but it's not the only guide. Leftists make so many mistakes, assuming religion always has something to do with preventing murder of babies is just one of them.
Click to expand...

OK, fair enough. So, if abortion is "murder of babies", how is it to be prevented?
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Dittohead not! said:
OK, fair enough. So, if abortion is "murder of babies", how is it to be prevented?
Click to expand...

The huge step forward would be outlawing abortion.

Lessor steps but very important ones would be weaning people off welfare, food stamps and government healthcare for nothing. That would need to be coupled with finally getting serious about stopping illegal immigration. America has proven that most people can take care of themselves just fine. We just started getting away from it during FDR's disaster of a Presidency.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Dittohead not! said:
OK, fair enough. So, if abortion is "murder of babies", how is it to be prevented?
Click to expand...
Preventing unwanted pregnancies.

We have already had outlawed abortions. Didn't work.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

ItAin'tFree said:
The huge step forward would be outlawing abortion.
Click to expand...

which would work about as well as outlawing pot.

ItAin'tFree said:
Lessor steps but very important ones would be weaning people off welfare, food stamps and government healthcare for nothing.
Click to expand...

Doesn't the welfare state encourage poor people to have children by providing more money for those children? Ending it is something that needs to be done for economic reasons, but to end abortion? I think that might be counterproductive.

ItAin'tFree said:
That would need to be coupled with finally getting serious about stopping illegal immigration. America has proven that most people can take care of themselves just fine. We just started getting away from it during FDR's disaster of a Presidency.
Click to expand...

Now, there's a dukes mixture of ideas. Is FDR actually responsible for illegal immigration? Do illegal aliens have more abortions than citizens born here?

There must be a law somewhere that, for any issue, there is some way to blame illegal immigration.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

ItAin'tFree said:
A woman's decision to complete the acts necessary to become pregnant wasn't made by just her. Somewhere along the line a man had to be part of the decision making process. So it is completely unreasonable for her to be allowed to make a decision to murder the mans child on her own. The man is just as much responsible for her pregnancy as she is. And any court of law will verify that. Men are required to pay child support (as they should be) for their part of the decision making process that resulted in a woman's pregnancy.
Click to expand...

LOL I was talking about LAWS made by men to control womens bodies. As far as men being equally responsible for a pregnancy of course that is true. If a man has chosen wisely he can simply "do the right thing" and they can have the child as a couple. But 99% of the men responsible for an unplanned pregnancy have no problems with ending it with an abortion. It is strangers with no business getting involved that are passing laws that limit a womens choices not their partners.
 
Last edited:
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Dittohead not! said:
which would work about as well as outlawing pot.

No, not really. Making it less accessible has and will make major reductions.



Doesn't the welfare state encourage poor people to have children by providing more money for those children? Ending it is something that needs to be done for economic reasons, but to end abortion? I think that might be counterproductive.

Yes the welfare state does do that. But along with that the welfare state teaches irresponsibility. For both men and women. Unplanned pregnancy for the most part is irresponsibility.



Now, there's a dukes mixture of ideas. Is FDR actually responsible for illegal immigration? Do illegal aliens have more abortions than citizens born here?

There must be a law somewhere that, for any issue, there is some way to blame illegal immigration.
Click to expand...

Way off base with your thoughts. FDR started the welfare state. And since him, it has done nothing but expand. The illegal immigration part is about opening jobs for Americans being placed off welfare. With a job, it's a lot easier to be and act responsible.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

iguanaman said:
LOL I was talking about LAWS made by men to control womens bodies. As far as men being equally responsible for a pregnancy of course that is true. If a man has chosen wisely he can simply "do the right thing" and they can have the child as a couple. But 99% of the men responsible for an unplanned pregnancy have no problems with ending it with an abortion. It is strangers with no business getting involved that are passing laws that limit a womens choices not their partners.
Click to expand...

LOL. Like women are not capable of making laws for men. That's absurd.

Show me where you got your 99% stat from. I don't buy it.

Do you know your members of congress on a first name basis? Probably not. So no matter what law they pass, it's strangers to you passing them.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Maybe we should have a law where it is required to get the opinion of the fetus prior to the abortion then.

Bob Blaylock said:
Approximately half of the innocent victims of abortion are girls, who would become women if they were allowed to live. The “choice” which you defend is certainly not safe for them.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Dittohead not! said:
Your opinion that abortion is "killing babies" is not a religious one? Really?
Click to expand...

actually it's not inherently religious. I know atheists and Peta style secularists who hold the same view. But I would wager that it's most popular among the religious
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Can we NOT turn this into another basic abortion thread? There are an endless number of those already on this board, while this one specifically deals with the parameters that healthcare professionals would administer them in
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

ItAin'tFree said:
Way off base with your thoughts. FDR started the welfare state. And since him, it has done nothing but expand. The illegal immigration part is about opening jobs for Americans being placed off welfare. With a job, it's a lot easier to be and act responsible.
Click to expand...

and the welfare state encourages abortions, or encourages births? Think about it.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

iguanaman said:
LOL I was talking about LAWS made by men to control womens bodies. As far as men being equally responsible for a pregnancy of course that is true. If a man has chosen wisely he can simply "do the right thing" and they can have the child as a couple. But 99% of the men responsible for an unplanned pregnancy have no problems with ending it with an abortion. It is strangers with no business getting involved that are passing laws that limit a womens choices not their partners.
Click to expand...

you know a majority of women favor limiting abortion to the 20th week? So as opposed to constantly employing various character attacks that do nothing but reveal your ignorance and weak, incompetent intellectual basis for your views, why not stick to the subject for once?
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Dittohead not! said:
Right over there, of course.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but I don't recall it being mentioned before YOU brought it up. So quote the relevant post
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Dr. Chuckles said:
actually it's not inherently religious. I know atheists and Peta style secularists who hold the same view. But I would wager that it's most popular among the religious
Click to expand...

It is definitely more popular among the fundamentalists at least, which puzzles me.
If you believe that there is a god, that humans are spiritual beings, then an aborted fetus represents a body that didn't get made. The spirit can be born into another body, perhaps to a different parent.
If, on the other hand, you believe in ashes to ashes, dust to dust, there is nothing beyond this physical life, then an aborted fetus represents an intelligence that will never have a chance to exist.

So, logically, it should be the atheists who believe that life starts at conception and that aborting a fetus at any stage is tantamount to killing a baby.

Oh well. Logic and human thought seems at times to be incompatible.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Dittohead not! said:
and the welfare state encourages abortions, or encourages births? Think about it.
Click to expand...

Dude, why don't you two take it to one of the many threads where the topic is already being hashed out? People are discussing a different topic here
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Dr. Chuckles said:
I could be wrong, but I don't recall it being mentioned before YOU brought it up. So quote the relevant post
Click to expand...

Trust me. I'm not going back and re reading all of the posts in this thread. It's not worth the trouble, and you'll never admit you were wrong anyway.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Dittohead not! said:
It is definitely more popular among the fundamentalists at least, which puzzles me.
If you believe that there is a god, that humans are spiritual beings, then an aborted fetus represents a body that didn't get made.
Click to expand...

No, that is your subjective opinion. Trying to establish such as fact, would be simply doing the exact thing you are decrying
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom