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Thread: California's brown signs bill permitting non-physician abortions [W:307]

  1. #21
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Right, right. That's why one of the excuses used by those pushing for this was women were having a little trouble finding doctors to do this. So the did the logical thing that provides for a woman's best care, that took a step down in the level of service, skill and expertise. When a woman is laying there on the table when complications arise she'll know she has "trained medical professional" wondering what to do next instead of a doctor. That has to be reassuring to her.
    well you just further proved you have no clue what you are talking about, the people allowed to do this all have the training and are licensed to do so. FAIL
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Breitbart...
    I'm curious - why is it always necessary to attack the messenger rather than the veracity of the message?

    If you're challenging the message, do so - personally, I'd be interested.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Most abortions today are done with a pill. The idea that you need to be a doctor to hand someone a pill is comical. Do you even hear your own words?
    Funny, I seem to recall a recent murder trial in which a non-doctor gave a woman an abortion pill and all the pro-choicers were saying that unless the pill was given in the right process, along with other medications, the woman could suffer serious pain and potentially death.

    I'm not a zealot on either side of the argument, but I have to say that this is one issue where the truth seldom sees the light of day.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #24
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    heres a link to the actual bill: Bill Text: CA AB154 | 2013-2014 | Regular Session | Enrolled | LegiScan


    heres some blurbs from it


    AB 154, Atkins. Abortion.
    Existing law makes it a public offense, punishable by a fine not
    exceeding $10,000 or imprisonment, or both, for a person to perform
    or assist in performing a surgical abortion if the person does not
    have a valid license to practice as a physician and surgeon, or to
    assist in performing a surgical abortion without a valid license or
    certificate obtained in accordance with some other law that
    authorizes him or her to perform the functions necessary to assist in
    performing a surgical abortion. Existing law also makes it a public
    offense, punishable by a fine not exceeding $10,000 or imprisonment,
    or both, for a person to perform or assist in performing a
    nonsurgical abortion if the person does not have a valid license to
    practice as a physician and surgeon or does not have a valid license
    or certificate obtained in accordance with some other law authorizing
    him or her to perform or assist in performing the functions
    necessary for a nonsurgical abortion. Under existing law, nonsurgical
    abortion includes termination of pregnancy through the use of
    pharmacological agents.
    Existing law, the Nursing Practice Act, provides for the licensure
    and regulation of registered nurses, including nurse practitioners
    and certified nurse-midwives, by the Board of Registered Nursing.
    Existing law, the Physician Assistant Practice Act, provides for the
    licensure and regulation of physician assistants by the Physician
    Assistant Board within the jurisdiction of the Medical Board of
    California.

    WHAT CHANGES
    This bill would instead make it a public offense, punishable by a
    fine not exceeding $10,000 or imprisonment, or both, for a person to
    perform an abortion if the person does not have a valid license to
    practice as a physician and surgeon, except that it would not be a
    public offense for a person to perform an abortion by medication or
    aspiration techniques in the first trimester of pregnancy if he or
    she holds a license or certificate authorizing him or her to perform
    the functions necessary for an abortion by medication or aspiration
    techniques. The bill would also require a nurse practitioner,
    certified nurse-midwife, or physician assistant to complete training,
    as specified, and to comply with standardized procedures or
    protocols, as specified, in order to perform an abortion by
    aspiration techniques, and would indefinitely authorize a nurse
    practitioner, certified nurse-midwife, or physician assistant who
    completed a specified training program and achieved clinical
    competency to continue to perform abortions by aspiration techniques
    .

    The bill would delete the references to a nonsurgical abortion and
    would delete the restrictions on assisting with abortion procedures.
    The bill would also make technical, nonsubstantive changes.
    Because the bill would change the definition of crimes, the bill
    would impose a state-mandated local program.
    The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local
    agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the
    state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that
    reimbursement.
    This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this
    act for a specified reason.
    Last edited by AGENT J; 10-10-13 at 06:15 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    thats because like i suggested this probably doesnt do anything at all that the FDA and other medical orgs dont already allow.
    SO theres nothign to fight, that seemed obvious to me because if the state couldnt pass this if it went against the FDA and other medical orgs, it doesnt work that way

    this is what i found from PP

    Assembly Bill 154 will address the current shortage of health care professionals able to provide early abortion care in California. It will authorize trained Nurse Practitioners (NPs), Certified Nurse Midwives (CNMs) and Physician Assistants (PAs) to provide comprehensive first trimester abortion care, which is within the scope of their licenses.

    AB 154:

    Expands access to early abortion services in California
    Reflects the best scientific research
    Minimizes targeted statutory regulation of abortion

    Sponsor Organizations:
    ACLU
    ACCESS Women’s Health Justice
    Black Women for Wellness
    California Latinas for Reproductive Justice
    NARAL Pro-Choice California
    Planned Parenthood Affiliates of California

    Supporting Organizations:
    ACT for Women and Girls of Tulare County
    Bay Area Communities for Health Education
    California Church IMPACT
    California Family Health Council
    Cardea Institute
    Center on Reproductive Rights and Justice
    Choice USA
    Forward Together
    Fresno Barrios Unidos
    National Health Law Program
    Nevada County Citizens For Choice
    Physicians for Reproductive Choice & Health
    Women's Community Clinic
    Women's Health Specialists of California

    so the OP is a complete failure, joke and farse

    its just like i said:
    "as long as this follows FDA and other medical org guidelines as other drugs/procedures its always good to allow people greater access, again as long as it follows the same regulations as other meds/procedures of its kind.

    I see ZERO wrong here and women are GAINING, not losing"


    but again id be right with you mags IF this bill did something to side step FDA and medical regulations or drugs/procedures of this kind. Then that would be BAD and not good at all.
    That's an impressive list of organizations endorsing that change. I'm not at all sure how the FDA would enter into this, though. (Not that they should, I just don't know.) While I read that it's one of the safest abortion procedures, we all know that complications can throw any procedure into a cocked hat.

    I guess, in the scheme of things, this is just one more incursion into the power and mystic of medical doctors. *shrug* I don't have to stretch too far to think that may be a good thing.

    Thanks for the education.

  6. #26
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    1.)That's an impressive list of organizations endorsing that change. I'm not at all sure how the FDA would enter into this, though. (Not that they should, I just don't know.)
    2.)While I read that it's one of the safest abortion procedures, we all know that complications can throw any procedure into a cocked hat.

    3.)I guess, in the scheme of things, this is just one more incursion into the power and mystic of medical doctors. *shrug* I don't have to stretch too far to think that may be a good thing.

    4.)Thanks for the education.
    1.) FDA would enter this because many first trimester abortions are done non surgical of course and done by pill, that pill has regulations on it. Whether it be over the counter, prescription, supervised usages etc so a state bill cant side step that.

    2.) this i agree with, theres always possible complications from ANYTHING, but that doesnt mean we use overkill to try and limit it, it should follow the same rules as any other meds/procedures in its class follow. Not given special rules.
    I also made another post showing how the bill states that there must be certification and training given that goes right in line with everything else.

    3.) so far what ive read from the bill nad from the MEDICAL COMMUNITY it all seems like a plus, of course there could be info i dont have.

    4.) no problem at all, i only learned about this bill and info yesterday lol I just keep saying IF incase more comes out but i havent found anything
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  7. #27
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Jerry Brown is a monster. How dare he refer to himself as a Jesuit.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #28
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    "Gov. Jerry Brown of California signed AB 154 on Wednesday, legalizing non-physician abortions in the state.

    The legislation, which had been pushed vigorously by Planned Parenthood, had been strongly opposed by pro-life groups and some physicians, arguing that it amounted to legalizing back-alley abortions for profit.

    In a statement, Gov. Brown boasted that AB 154 was one of seven bills signed Tuesday "to support the health and well-being of women in California."
    California's Brown Signs Bill Permitting Non-Physician Abortions

    Lets see. The liberals policies thrown many women out of work and prevent many of them from finding work and require many others of them to take an hours cut. But that's not enough for the liberals. For years they have yelled about preventing back alley abortions and they needed to be conducted legally by doctors. Well, here's progress the liberal way. Take a bad idea, make it worse and then call it a success.
    Is this basically allowing non-physicians to hand out the morning after pill? If so, I have some reservations with anyone taking that level of medication without proper supervision, but I'm not sure it raises to the level of back alley abortions. But with that said, the more ideological elements of the pro-abortion crowd often seem to completely overlook the issue of patient safety and see any reasonable restrictions on the practice as being equal to banning it. I guess they're pretty similar to the gun nuts in that sense

    Kind of equal measures sad and pathetic

  9. #29
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    bortion by medication or aspiration techniques in the first trimester of pregnancy if he or she holds a license or certificate authorizing him or her to perform the functions necessary for an abortion by medication or aspiration techniques.
    While I understand the distinction between this and surgical abortion, I'm not sure that is still a good thing. We are talking about powerful medications that carry serious consequences if they are not used right, and surely few would support handing out such medications with equal risks surrounding them if the subject was anything other than abortion.

  10. #30
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Is this basically allowing non-physicians to hand out the morning after pill? If so, I have some reservations with anyone taking that level of medication without proper supervision, but I'm not sure it raises to the level of back alley abortions. But with that said, the more ideological elements of the pro-abortion crowd often seem to completely overlook the issue of patient safety and see any reasonable restrictions on the practice as being equal to banning it. I guess they're pretty similar to the gun nuts in that sense

    Kind of equal measures sad and pathetic

    uhm this is already the case for the morning after pill as it falls in line with other pills of its classification to be that way. THis has been true for quite some times, actually this year the age availability was just lowered.

    SO patient safety isnt being overlooked at all, the FDA controls that and a state bill cant sidestep that.

    IM guessing you are confusing somethign else since non of that is factually true.
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