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Thread: California's brown signs bill permitting non-physician abortions [W:307]

  1. #141
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Did you even think before writing that? If prescription drugs carry such an inherent risk already, then how does it make sense to reduce the amount of training, knowledge, and technical skills of those handling them?
    Because this is all a red herring. Unlike prescription pain killers, there is no problem with the safety of legal abortions and no reason to think that safety is being jeopardized in any way by allowing trained medical professionals who are not medical doctors hand out pills or perform simple abortions. All you want is to restrict a womans access to safe legal abortions and that is illegal too.

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Because this is all a red herring. Unlike prescription pain killers, there is no problem with the safety of legal abortions and no reason to think that safety is being jeopardized in any way by allowing trained medical professionals who are not medical doctors hand out pills or perform simple abortions. All you want is to restrict a womans access to safe legal abortions and that is illegal too.
    No, I am perfectly fine with abortions. My concern here is patient safety. And I suspect that in any other circumstance your stereotypical response, as a notoriously knee-jerk liberal who lacks even the most basic facade of critical thinking skills, would be to rail against such deregulation.

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I suggest you read the grand Jury report on Gosnell with specific emphasis on the parts that go into outlining how a culture of deregulation allowed his activity which was well known by the state end medical community, to be swept under the rug

    Start at page 137, under the subtitle "how did it go on for so long". It end at page 212 with the section other doctors, that outlines how emergency room practitioners did not report the multiple deaths and injuries that treated from goisnell's facility, despite being required to do so under PA law. It opens with:

    <<<The callous killing of babies outside the womb, the routinely performed third-trimester abortions, the deaths of at least two patients, and the grievous health risks iinflicted on countless other women by Gosnell and his unlicensed staff are not the only shocking things that this Grand Jury investigation uncovered. What surprised the jurors even more is the official neglect that allowed these crimes and conditions to persist for years in a Philadelphia medical facility. THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH NEGLECTED ITS DUTY TO ENSURE THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF PATIENTS IN PENNSYLVANIA’S ABORTION CLINICS. We discovered that Pennsylvania’s Department of Health has deliberately chosen not to enforce laws that should afford patients at abortion clinics the same safeguards and assurances of quality health care as patients of other medical service providers. Even nail salons in Pennsylvania are monitored more closely for client safety. The State Legislature has charged the Department of Health (DOH) with responsibility for writing and enforcing regulations to protect health and safety in abortion clinics as well as in hospitals and other health care facilities. Yet a significant difference exists between how DOH monitors abortion clinics and how it monitors facilities where other medical procedures are performed. Indeed, the department has shown an utter disregard both for the safety of women who seek treatment at abortion clinics and for the health of fetuses after they have become viable. State health officials have also shown a disregard for the laws the department is supposed to enforce. Most appalling of all, the Department of Health’s neglect of abortion patients’ safety and of Pennsylvania laws is clearly not inadvertent: It is by design>>>

    http://www.phila.gov/districtattorne...ensmedical.pdf




    I am very pro-abortion. I just don't think my views on abortion should supersede legitimate concerns for patient s safety and health



    Ugh, how does raising legitimate patient safety concerns (women in this instance) equate to wanting to "kill and maim innocent women"? Sounds like you're just tossing out baseless emotional appeals
    You are pro-abortion but hate Planned Parenthood and think they don't care for women and are in it for the money? Planned Parenthood is a non-profit organization made up mostly of women. Is that your problem with them? Women making decisions about women instead of men making them?
    Last edited by iguanaman; 10-11-13 at 03:12 AM.

  4. #144
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    You are pro-abortion but hate Planned Parenthood
    Where did I say I hated planned parenthood? FYI, if all you bring to this discussion is the ability to make stuff up then I suggest you exit it. Because you will only get embarrassed.

    and think they don't care for women and are in it for the money?
    I think they are an advocay group focused on promoting their agenda, like any other advocacy group. That isn't hating them, but pointing out what they are and the limitations of it.

    Planned Parenthood is a non-profit organization made up mostly of women.
    Ok, but that isn't mutually exclusive to the fact that they are an advocacy group, who has an agenda to advocate on certain issues

    Is that your problem with them? Women making decisions about women instead of men?
    No, my problem is concerns for patient safety that run the very real risk of being overlooked in pursuit of opening up access to abortion, like what I outlined in the Gosnell case.

    Do you not understand english?

  5. #145
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    So "Agent Jay" was wrong…?
    That's usually a pretty safe assumption, no matter what the topic of discussion is.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  6. #146
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    LOL so you think only doctors can read?
    Don't ask me - ask the pro-abortion crowd who claimed that only a doctor can oversee the process. And don't you live in the land famous for suing McDonalds because the coffee was hot and the place where a dolt of a President just got reelected because he has a nice smile and can carry a tune? I wouldn't be asking too many questions about intelligence if I were you.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's your opinion, and it is opinion only. If you believe that life begins at conception, then by all means, don't have an abortion, but don't impose your religious beliefs on the rest of society by force of law.
    Funny. You are the one brining religion into this topic.
    "“If we don’t deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina; or Savannah, Georgia; or Jacksonville, Florida…” -Obama

  8. #148
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I'm not going to act like this is an easy decision, but I will tell you that onerous and anti-competitive regulations, condescension, and paternalism don't make this decision any easier. The fact that many of these people are young does not mean that they don't have the right to come to a decision on their own. If you want to frame your movement as protecting the rights of the unborn, that's completely reasonable, but you are not protecting women.
    While I appreciate your attempt to somewhat discuss this civilly, with the idea that your side does not have condescension and paternalism being rather comical, certainly untenable. Anti-competitive in having high health standards when it comes to invasive procedures, that what you mean...? Many of these young ladies are under severe duress, like standing on a cliff having a gun pointed at their heads, the ones making the big bucks saying, come on dear, just jump, jump and it will be all better, be all over...

    See, there you go with your own condescension... telling our side that we in no way could even think of protecting women... that premise is simply ludicrous, unwarranted hubris, not to mention hypocritical... you see, our side intends both...whether you like it, recognize it, or not.



    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    I'm making zero dollars off of this. I'm also a libertarian. I don't see how adding money to a situation automatically makes an organization nefarious. I never denied that people would make money off of this. You never explained why this is bad. You're a conservative, you do like capitalism and the profit motive, right?
    Oh come on, libertarians can generally see how the money game is played... to ignore that as a factor, that this is more than a half trillion dollar$ every year industry and fail to see how that, at the very least, MAY, and I would suggest DOES, affect legislation and certain pocketbooks [ $1.8 million annually just in lobbying for Planned Parenthood in Cali alone... you think that is just so these oh so tenderhearted folks can yank living things from the bodies of women ?], you certainly cannot remain that naive in your positions.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

  9. #149
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Nuff said.
    Well, even though Breitbart is a credible source, it is always good to back that up with at least one or two other credible sources...so yeah...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

  10. #150
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If the goal is to reduce the number of abortions, the best way to go about it is to make sure that women have access to, and knowledge of, effective birth control.

    There is no way that abortion can ever be eliminated altogether, none.
    Sorry, but just a personal pet peeve of mine with people using absolutes that, in most cases, are incorrect. I understand your point, but the absolute makes it unlikely to actually be provable truth.

    So, should the sun suddenly burn out, or if man killed off all life on the planet, or more probably, if a fail safe system were devised to totally prevent unwanted pregnancy in the future, under none of those conditions could one deign to perceive that there may, indeed, be an elimination of abortion altogether?

    Just saying...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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