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Thread: California's brown signs bill permitting non-physician abortions [W:307]

  1. #131
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    No one is talking about getting rid of all regulations on abortions, but there are restrictions that actually protect the patient and those that only seek to restrict abortions.
    Yes, I understand that and even stressed the point in my post with the counseling example.

    The doctor restriction that was just repealed falls in the latter category of restrictions.
    Based on what? I am always skeptical of any measure that limits the doctor patient relationship in such matters, especially when there needs to be steps taken like an overview of the patients health

    Abortion providers would still face the same standards and guidelines that they do now.
    How can that be when you just removed the requirement that the procedure is performed by a doctor?

    Women could still see doctors if they wanted to. Repealing this law does not expose women to more danger, but to more choice.
    can you explain to me how reducing the training requirement for someone to perform the procedure does not ex[pose them to more danger? More danger seems the obvious consequence here. With the real question being if the level of increased risk is justifiable along other lines, like affordability and access

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Legal abortions are extremely safe, safer than pregnancy statistic wise. If a "abortion' consists of handing someone a pill, how would a doctor doing it make it safer?
    The idea that Planned Parenthood would endanger women to save a buck is not only a lie but disgusting. I'm surprised you don't know a woman that has been helped in some way by them. Most of us do.
    This doesn't simply allow for handing someone a pill. Who would care about that? This legislation authorizes nonphysicians (albeit with special training) to perform aspirations. That is NOT a pill. That's a vacuum cleaner.

    I don't recall specifically faulting Planned Parenthood in any of my comments other than generally. But please don't be so naive as to believe they are unmotivated by their bottom line.

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    California is now the fifth state to allow trained NMW and PAs to perform its trimester abortions.
    The other states are Oregon, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Montanta.
    So "Agent Jay" was wrong when he claimed this was already standard practice? Are you familiar with the licensing and training requirements in those states for the certification? My big problem here is that I can't understand how a quick review from a physician is too burdensome of a task for doctors?

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Poppycock. Prescription drugs are the #1 killer in overdose deaths, a lot of good Doctors do.
    Did you even think before writing that? If prescription drugs carry such an inherent risk already, then how does it make sense to reduce the amount of training, knowledge, and technical skills of those handling them?

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If the goal is to reduce the number of abortions, the best way to go about it is to make sure that women have access to, and knowledge of, effective birth control.

    There is no way that abortion can ever be eliminated altogether, none.
    that is completely irrelevant to the point under discussion here

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    So "Agent Jay" was wrong when he claimed this was already standard practice? Are you familiar with the licensing and training requirements in those states for the certification? My big problem here is that I can't understand how a quick review from a physician is too burdensome of a task for doctors?

    why do you lie? is it because you got exposed?
    I wasnt wrong about anything, shows how desperate you are when you resort to posting lies.
    I said its already happening else where and i said its what the MEDICAL COMMUNITY already practices

    LAW limits it
    but the medical community already has these standards, please educate yourself so less of your posts totally fail

    ill check back tomorrow to see what other lies, meltdowns and failed points you post.
    You lose again to facts as usual
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Legal abortions are extremely safe, safer than pregnancy statistic wise. If a "abortion' consists of handing someone a pill, how would a doctor doing it make it safer?
    because he would have more knowledge when reviewing the patients unique medical history, current medical state, and likely be more proficient at noticing any overlooked medical issue.

    The same reason anyone with more training is preferable in any situation. But the key here is if the reduction is training, and the increased risk it brings, is justified


    The idea that Planned Parenthood would endanger women to save a buck is not only a lie but disgusting. I'm surprised you don't know a woman that has been helped in some way by them. Most of us do.
    Planned parenthood serves the interests of planned parenthood, whatever you imagine those to be, not individual patients. And I have cited how the Gosnell case was fueled by a similar interest and want to deregulate the abortion field, which had consequences that were criminal and lead to the death of multiple patiants

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    why do you lie? is it because you got exposed?
    I wasnt wrong about anything, shows how desperate you are when you resort to posting lies.
    I said its already happening else where and i said its what the MEDICAL COMMUNITY already practices
    Right, you presented this as the current common practice in most states. here someone is claiming only 5 states allow it. That would make you wrong, and I fail in seeing how you being misinformed would 'expose me"

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    because he would have more knowledge when reviewing the patients unique medical history, current medical state, and likely be more proficient at noticing any overlooked medical issue.

    The same reason anyone with more training is preferable in any situation. But the key here is if the reduction is training, and the increased risk it brings, is justified


    Planned parenthood serves the interests of planned parenthood, whatever you imagine those to be, not individual patients. And I have cited how the Gosnell case was fueled by a similar interest and want to deregulate the abortion field, which had consequences that were criminal and lead to the death of multiple patiants
    I love how you bring up that butcher Gosnell. It reminds me of the kind of "people" that you want and are striving to make the only source of an abortion for women. The source that served that purpose BEFORE abortion was legalized and was a major driver in the fight for legalization. You really should be called pro-illegal abortion supporters. Because that is what you are working for, a HUGE increase in illegal abortionists and women hospitalized or killed by them. I really don't give a hoot what YOU do with your body but when your purpose is to kill and maim innocent women, you need to be called on it.

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I love how you bring up that butcher Gosnell. It reminds me of the kind of "people" that you want and are striving to make the only source of an abortion for women.
    I suggest you read the grand Jury report on Gosnell with specific emphasis on the parts that go into outlining how a culture of deregulation allowed his activity which was well known by the state end medical community, to be swept under the rug

    Start at page 137, under the subtitle "how did it go on for so long". It end at page 212 with the section other doctors, that outlines how emergency room practitioners did not report the multiple deaths and injuries that treated from goisnell's facility, despite being required to do so under PA law. It opens with:

    <<<The callous killing of babies outside the womb, the routinely performed third-trimester abortions, the deaths of at least two patients, and the grievous health risks iinflicted on countless other women by Gosnell and his unlicensed staff are not the only shocking things that this Grand Jury investigation uncovered. What surprised the jurors even more is the official neglect that allowed these crimes and conditions to persist for years in a Philadelphia medical facility. THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH NEGLECTED ITS DUTY TO ENSURE THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF PATIENTS IN PENNSYLVANIA’S ABORTION CLINICS. We discovered that Pennsylvania’s Department of Health has deliberately chosen not to enforce laws that should afford patients at abortion clinics the same safeguards and assurances of quality health care as patients of other medical service providers. Even nail salons in Pennsylvania are monitored more closely for client safety. The State Legislature has charged the Department of Health (DOH) with responsibility for writing and enforcing regulations to protect health and safety in abortion clinics as well as in hospitals and other health care facilities. Yet a significant difference exists between how DOH monitors abortion clinics and how it monitors facilities where other medical procedures are performed. Indeed, the department has shown an utter disregard both for the safety of women who seek treatment at abortion clinics and for the health of fetuses after they have become viable. State health officials have also shown a disregard for the laws the department is supposed to enforce. Most appalling of all, the Department of Health’s neglect of abortion patients’ safety and of Pennsylvania laws is clearly not inadvertent: It is by design>>>

    http://www.phila.gov/districtattorne...ensmedical.pdf


    The source that served that purpose BEFORE abortion was legalized and was a major driver in the fight for legalization. You really should be called pro-illegal abortion supporters.
    I am very pro-abortion. I just don't think my views on abortion should supersede legitimate concerns for patient s safety and health

    Because that is what you are working for, a HUGE increase in illegal abortionists and women hospitalized or killed by them. I really don't give a hoot what YOU do with your body but when your purpose is to kill and maim innocent women, you need to be called on it.
    Ugh, how does raising legitimate patient safety concerns (women in this instance) equate to wanting to "kill and maim innocent women"? Sounds like you're just tossing out baseless emotional appeals

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