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Thread: California's brown signs bill permitting non-physician abortions [W:307]

  1. #121
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    California is now the fifth state to allow trained NMW and PAs to perform its trimester abortions.
    The other states are Oregon, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Montanta.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  2. #122
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    the central question is over liberalization and if this represents such an instance. For example, I'm sure we agree that regulation shouldn't require a women to get counseling prior to an abortion with the intent of talking her out of the procedure. But I am sure we equally agree that surgical abortion clinics should be subject to stricter health standards than a nail salon, that inspections should occur and that violations should be rectified, and that reports of physician caused injuries and deaths should be investigated. Recently in PA the later three all contributed to the gosnell case, due to the misplaced idea that liberalization should be pursued at all cost, regardless of the effects it had on patient safety

    Such liberalization is inexcusable, because it only hurts the patients, who are way to vulnerable to abuse in the patient/medical practitioner relationship
    No one is talking about getting rid of all regulations on abortions, but there are restrictions that actually protect the patient and those that only seek to restrict abortions. The former, like ones that prevent a Gosnell-like horror-show are beneficial. Others such as requirements that abortion clinics hallways have certain dimensions, the proposed trans-vaginal ultrasound requirement, and Mississippi's requirement that abortion providers must have admitting privileges in a MS hospital do not protect women. If anything, they make women less safe, by restricting competition, which would make a provider think twice about cutting corners. The doctor restriction that was just repealed falls in the latter category of restrictions. Abortion providers would still face the same standards and guidelines that they do now. Women could still see doctors if they wanted to. Repealing this law does not expose women to more danger, but to more choice.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Just a couple of relevant portions from the LA Times article.
    Gov. Jerry Brown signs bill to increase access to abortions - latimes.com

    So basically it's not "back alley abortions" it's nurse practitioners...and studies have shown that abortions provided by them are just as safe as those practiced by physicians.
    By the same token, it's just as safe for me to shoot you in the head with a handgun, as it is for me to cut your throat with a knife.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  4. #124
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaddelamancha View Post
    How is it a war on Women when all this does is give woman a safe and legal choice concering their body. If only every war was this bad.
    Approximately half of the innocent victims of abortion are girls, who would become women if they were allowed to live. The “choice” which you defend is certainly not safe for them.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  5. #125
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    A part of the manipulation is that if you make it easier to get abortions, this will lead to more people not worrying about the risk and therefore, as you put it, more women allowing themselves in situations to get themselves in this situation that sucks, more often to have the need to want an abortion... or at least think that is what they want.

    You have these situations, especially with younger women, as over half are from the ages of 15-24, women without much life experience yet, women who in many cases have been abandoned by the guys that got them pregnant, therefore probably thinking they are left alone to solve this mega problem... National Abortion Federation: Women Who Have Abortions


    I'm not going to act like this is an easy decision, but I will tell you that onerous and anti-competitive regulations, condescension, and paternalism don't make this decision any easier. The fact that many of these people are young does not mean that they don't have the right to come to a decision on their own. If you want to frame your movement as protecting the rights of the unborn, that's completely reasonable, but you are not protecting women.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    What is rarely brought up, but was tangentially in this article, is just what a money maker this is for abortion clinics. If you figure the average is about $500 per abortion and there were 1.2 + million abortions in 2008...that comes out to a six [6] with eleven [11] zeros behind it in dollars...that means its a $600 Billion a year, more than half a trillion dollars just in abortions, business...no wonder Planned Parenthood wants a shot at all those nice little honey pots...


    So you wanna talk about irk, irks me that your side tries to pretend they are just helping these women out... they have a big, HUGE, financial stake in the whole deal. What is the Pro life stake? ONLY helping these ladies out and saving babies... add to that all the trash talking they have to endure from your side.

    Give me a break.
    I'm making zero dollars off of this. I'm also a libertarian. I don't see how adding money to a situation automatically makes an organization nefarious. I never denied that people would make money off of this. You never explained why this is bad. You're a conservative, you do like capitalism and the profit motive, right?
    "Doubleplusungood"

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  6. #126
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    While I understand the distinction between this and surgical abortion, I'm not sure that is still a good thing. We are talking about powerful medications that carry serious consequences if they are not used right…
    Certainly, the unnecessary and preventable death of an innocent child is a serious consequence, and this is when the drug in question is “used right”.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  7. #127
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    California is now the fifth state to allow trained NMW and PAs to perform its trimester abortions.
    The other states are Oregon, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Montanta.

    Thats pathetic that so many states limit healthcare based on non-safety, medical and science issues.

    I hope this spreads to all of them fast
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  8. #128
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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Funny, I seem to recall a recent murder trial in which a non-doctor gave a woman an abortion pill and all the pro-choicers were saying that unless the pill was given in the right process, along with other medications, the woman could suffer serious pain and potentially death.

    I'm not a zealot on either side of the argument, but I have to say that this is one issue where the truth seldom sees the light of day.
    LOL so you think only doctors can read?

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    You reasoning could apply to almost any medication, but the reason we create the barrier of a doctor to such things, is because those magic little beans can carry serious health implications.
    Poppycock. Prescription drugs are the #1 killer in overdose deaths, a lot of good Doctors do.

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    Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    So what? The story is true.

    I cannot imagine why on earth California would enact such legislation. My bet? Done at the behest of clinics who want to hire cheaper help than a licensed physician. This isn't protecting women; this is putting them in the hands of people who are not equipped to recognize a complication when they see it happening . . . and not knowing what to do when something untoward does happen.

    I am simply amazed that the AMA didn't fight this right to the wall.
    Legal abortions are extremely safe, safer than pregnancy statistic wise. If a "abortion' consists of handing someone a pill, how would a doctor doing it make it safer?
    The idea that Planned Parenthood would endanger women to save a buck is not only a lie but disgusting. I'm surprised you don't know a woman that has been helped in some way by them. Most of us do.

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