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School bans most balls during recess: Smart move or going too far?

American said:
What are ****ing kidding me? This thinking couldn't be more stupid and unsubstantiated.
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why is that exactly? Can you please form an argument rather than one sentence containing a swear word, I thought this was a debate site?
 
sangha said:
The area is a republican stronghold. :lamo
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Not that it really matters either way what the politics of the location of the school is, but that isn't true. Northern Nassau county is fairly Democratic.
 
"School bans most balls during recess: Smart move or going too far?"

I wasn't aware that schools had any balls to ban.
 
Higgins86 said:
why is that exactly? Can you please form an argument rather than one sentence containing a swear word, I thought this was a debate site?
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#2 .
 
Anagram said:
Not that it really matters either way what the politics of the location of the school is, but that isn't true. Northern Nassau county is fairly Democratic.
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Port Washington's representative on the town council of North Hempstead is a republican
 
sangha said:
Port Washington's representative on the town council of North Hempstead is a republican
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Their previous one, was a Democrat, Fred Pollack, and Port Washington voted for Obama and Gregory Meeks.
 
sangha said:
Which makes me wonder why you responded to my post but not the one that blamed this ban on left wingers
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Because yours was the most recent one and yours can actually be proved wrong. I doubt it was the result of left wingers but I can't prove that the people who set the policy at the school weren't liberals. I can prove that Port Washington is not a Republican stronghold.

Don't take my nonresponse as an endorsement of his post.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Nonsense. If your son isn't as good at math as you thought, then it's because you thought more highly of his abilities than he had. It has nothing to do with the teacher giving him the opportunity to learn from his mistakes. I'm sorry, but your entire premise is ridiculous. How does simply marking the response wrong and ignoring it going forward improve his ability to do math? That doesn't make any sense at all. Furthermore, I have very serious doubts the child gets to retake questions on the standardized test, meaning the score he gets on that test is based off his initial answers.

Giving the child the opportunity to see where the error was and correct it provides the student the ability to not only learn from the mistake but to understand the logic behind the problem as well.
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You're right. You know my child better than I do. My bad.
 
To coin a phrase,... they'll have to pry my wiffle-ball from my cold dead hands.
 
MarineTpartier said:
You're right. You know my child better than I do. My bad.
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It has nothing to do with knowing your child but rather knowing the process of education. In that, you are correct. Your bad.
 
Its all fun and games until the school district gets slapped with a million dollar lawsuit because Jane broke her nose playing soccer or John broke his ankle while playing football. The school district is merely eliminating a liability created by parents with lawyers on speed dial.
 
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Slyfox696 said:
So...you have no idea how long this policy will be, the kids are still playing with the harder balls during gym class and the policy was only implemented once construction was going on at the school...but you're going to stick to your original position.

Wow...the only thing which would make this better would be a personal anecdote which could never be substantiated to illustrate the difference between how you had it and how it happens today...

Ahh, good! There it is.

Name them.
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This is just a continuation of a trend, they don't keep score in games, everyone gets participation trophies, no more dodgeball in many schools, some schools ban holding hands, etc etc...

But no, why stop there, why not make the kids wear knee pads and helmets for recess? No, the whiny tone of your response has me convinced... Let's just ban recess for safety.

Gimme a break.

Half the school ground is closed, how about staggering recess for the duration of construction? Maybe keep the gym open for recess? But no, gotta limit the fun these kids are allowed in the few minutes of the day they might actually enjoy if they are allowed to play.

Wahhhh the kids might get hurt...
 
Napoleon said:
Its all fun and games until the school district gets slapped with a million dollar lawsuit because Jane broke her nose playing soccer or John broke his ankle while playing football. The school district is merely eliminating a liability created by parents with lawyers on speed dial.
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You sound like this is a good thing? It's not.
 
Higgins86 said:
potentially smash someone in the face who wasn't playing.
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Being that you're British, I am unsure how this is a bad thing. Was it a fear of showing up your dental industry?
 
Slyfox696 said:
It has nothing to do with knowing your child but rather knowing the process of education. In that, you are correct. Your bad.
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Every teacher instructs differently. No one, even someone who thinks they are as educated as you, can honestly say they know the process of education for the entire country. The process of education isn't even standard from county to county, state to state, or nationwide. There are some standard measurables, such as standardized tests, but it mostly stops there.

I read back to the original post that started this and realized I made it sound as if he had received second chances on standardized testing. He did not. I was speaking of everyday testing. I apologize for the confusion.

IMO, as someone who has instructed, teaching stops when testing begins. A test is supposed to be a measurable tool that will speak to the effectiveness of the curriculum, teacher, and student's learning ability. The grade received is what it is. A test shouldn't be something that a student receives assistance with. When the test is over, a review is conducted. That is when learning should occur with the test being the tool. A child, or any student for that matter, receiving help on a test does nothing for the student but teach them that someone will bail them out if they fail to put forth the effort and/or gives the student and his parents the inaccurate picture as to the student's level of comprehension. Not all students are lazy and receive bad grades because of it. I realize that some students simply don't have the learning capacity of others. The time to learn that is not during a test. A teacher should recognize who his/her weak students are and help them prior to a test, not during it.
 
Napoleon said:
Its all fun and games until the school district gets slapped with a million dollar lawsuit because Jane broke her nose playing soccer or John broke his ankle while playing football. The school district is merely eliminating a liability created by parents with lawyers on speed dial.
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Then eliminate all physical activity. All sports programs, cheering, PE.
 
BmanMcfly said:
This is just a continuation of a trend
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No, no it's not. That's why I wonder if you've read the article.

they don't keep score in games, everyone gets participation trophies, no more dodgeball in many schools, some schools ban holding hands, etc etc...
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Yes, it is so awful when schools try to better the youth of our children. After all, we can just look at politics in this country and see how well what we used to do worked... :roll:

But no, why stop there, why not make the kids wear knee pads and helmets for recess? No, the whiny tone of your response has me convinced... Let's just ban recess for safety.
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First of all, if you think that was whiny, I'd suggest you review the definition of the word. Second of all, you have no real practical response to my statement, because you know you are completely wrong.

Half the school ground is closed, how about staggering recess for the duration of construction? Maybe keep the gym open for recess? But no, gotta limit the fun these kids are allowed in the few minutes of the day they might actually enjoy if they are allowed to play.
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...you obviously have no idea what a school schedule is like, and even less of an idea of how difficult it is to manage one. I'd suggest you come up with other suggestions which don't illustrate how little you seem to understand these things.

Wahhhh the kids might get hurt...
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Let me see if I have this right...you're okay with children getting hurt, schools getting sued which means less money for education and requires more of your tax dollars to run, just so you can feel superior because an older and obviously screwed up generation got hurt when they were kids.

Wow....

MarineTpartier said:
Every teacher instructs differently.
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And every student learns differently. But it's pretty clear if you simply mark something wrong and never revisit it, the student will never learn it. There's plenty of research on the process of education and I don't think any research says students learn better when the teachers simply give a grade and everyone forgets about it.

No one, even someone who thinks they are as educated as you, can honestly say they know the process of education for the entire country. The process of education isn't even standard from county to county, state to state, or nationwide. There are some standard measurables, such as standardized tests, but it mostly stops there.
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Uhh, considering the increasing adoption of Common Core standards across the country as a means to get out from underneath the dreadful NCLB, more and more we can know what students are being expected to learn.

I read back to the original post that started this and realized I made it sound as if he had received second chances on standardized testing. He did not. I was speaking of everyday testing. I apologize for the confusion.
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I understood what you meant when you said it, but thank you for attempting to clarify (no sarcasm intended).

IMO, as someone who has instructed, teaching stops when testing begins.
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But teaching doesn't have to stop when a student is quizzed or given an exam. You suggested your child's ability to do math was either hindered or artificially propped up by the teacher giving your child a chance to learn from their mistakes and a second chance to understand the concept behind the problem. This is absurd. Teaching and learning doesn't stop just because your child wrote on a piece of paper. Giving the child to ability to see the mistake, why the mistake was made and a chance to correct is sometimes the most powerful way to teach the child. For you to criticize that method is just silly to me.

Let's put it this way. If you took your child out to practice shooting (I believe you are a gun kind of guy) and you tell him he has to hit the target 4 times out of 5, but he only hits the target 2 times out of 5, do you take his gun away and never let him shoot again? Of course not, you tell him he needs to keep practicing to better learn how to use the firearm. Now apply that same concept to education.

A test is supposed to be a measurable tool that will speak to the effectiveness of the curriculum, teacher, and student's learning ability. The grade received is what it is. A test shouldn't be something that a student receives assistance with. When the test is over, a review is conducted. That is when learning should occur with the test being the tool. A child, or any student for that matter, receiving help on a test does nothing for the student but teach them that someone will bail them out if they fail to put forth the effort and/or gives the student and his parents the inaccurate picture as to the student's level of comprehension. Not all students are lazy and receive bad grades because of it. I realize that some students simply don't have the learning capacity of others. The time to learn that is not during a test. A teacher should recognize who his/her weak students are and help them prior to a test, not during it.
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Well, let's just say we have very different ideas of what learning is. To me, learning is not preparation for an evaluation after which you can forget the content, learning is preparation for life. You seem to want the test to be the driving force of schools...I want learning to be the driving force of schools.

We'll just have to disagree on what our schools should be doing.
 
Slyfox696 said:
No, no it's not. That's why I wonder if you've read the article.

Yes, it is so awful when schools try to better the youth of our children. After all, we can just look at politics in this country and see how well what we used to do worked... :roll:

First of all, if you think that was whiny, I'd suggest you review the definition of the word. Second of all, you have no real practical response to my statement, because you know you are completely wrong.

...you obviously have no idea what a school schedule is like, and even less of an idea of how difficult it is to manage one. I'd suggest you come up with other suggestions which don't illustrate how little you seem to understand these things.

Let me see if I have this right...you're okay with children getting hurt, schools getting sued which means less money for education and requires more of your tax dollars to run, just so you can feel superior because an older and obviously screwed up generation got hurt when they were kids.

Wow....

And every student learns differently. But it's pretty clear if you simply mark something wrong and never revisit it, the student will never learn it. There's plenty of research on the process of education and I don't think any research says students learn better when the teachers simply give a grade and everyone forgets about it.

Uhh, considering the increasing adoption of Common Core standards across the country as a means to get out from underneath the dreadful NCLB, more and more we can know what students are being expected to learn.

I understood what you meant when you said it, but thank you for attempting to clarify (no sarcasm intended).

But teaching doesn't have to stop when a student is quizzed or given an exam. You suggested your child's ability to do math was either hindered or artificially propped up by the teacher giving your child a chance to learn from their mistakes and a second chance to understand the concept behind the problem. This is absurd. Teaching and learning doesn't stop just because your child wrote on a piece of paper. Giving the child to ability to see the mistake, why the mistake was made and a chance to correct is sometimes the most powerful way to teach the child. For you to criticize that method is just silly to me.

Let's put it this way. If you took your child out to practice shooting (I believe you are a gun kind of guy) and you tell him he has to hit the target 4 times out of 5, but he only hits the target 2 times out of 5, do you take his gun away and never let him shoot again? Of course not, you tell him he needs to keep practicing to better learn how to use the firearm. Now apply that same concept to education.

Well, let's just say we have very different ideas of what learning is. To me, learning is not preparation for an evaluation after which you can forget the content, learning is preparation for life. You seem to want the test to be the driving force of schools...I want learning to be the driving force of schools.

We'll just have to disagree on what our schools should be doing.
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What does this have to do with playing ball in school? Talk about thread drift.
 
As a teacher at a high school, I will make this comment. We have lots of trees in our playgrounds at school. As a parent I believe kids should climb trees because it should be part of every childhood, kids should run around, jump etc etc during recess and lunch breaks. As a teacher, however, there is no way that I am going to let a kid climb a tree while I am on duty because I am not going to get sued and/or lose my job because a kid fell out of a tree. I am legally responsible for what happens when I am on playground duty and parents are going to come at a teacher ready to crucify him or her when their precious one gets hurt. Do not blame teachers...it is teachers who will cop all the trouble when a kid gets hurt. It is parents who have caused all this to come about because they can't handle it when their little darlings get injured, usually through their own stupid actions or accidents. About two weeks ago while I was on duty I had to physically break up a fight between two students, two girls. And let me tell you, if you think girls are easier to break apart than boys, you would be wrong! I was lucky that another teacher saw the fight from a window and ran out to help me, and another teacher came from another direction to assist (both females incidentally). If I had just let them go it would be me who would be in trouble much more so than the kids involved in the fight.
On another point. I am so over parents wanting a label for their kids. Recently I had to fill out a report on one of my students. He is a nice kid, a polite kid, a well behaved kid...he just tends to chat a lot to his mate in class. He is not the sharpest pencil in the box, to put it kindly. The report was for an ADD assessment. He is not ADD, he just isn't and I said so. His parents just don't seem to be able to accept that he is a tad slow academically so they WANT him to have ADD, and if not ADD they will, I guarantee you, find SOMETHING, anything that they can grab on to. I thought that ADD had fallen by the wayside, everyone wants Aspergis now, and it has become quite popular with an increase in diagnosed students. It's like ODD (Oppositional Defiance Disorder)...a term I refuse to use because the real term is Rude and Disrespectful....that just does not sound as cool as ODD.
Also, no one will ever convince me that kids are as smart or smarter than they used to be. Powerpoints that I made 5 years ago, I find I have to skip several slides because the kids don't understand them now and when I get time, I will have to go through all my Power points and dumb them down. Books we used to use 10 years ago we can't use now because they are too hard for kids now days. Literature has gone so far down. The English faculty have to buy new novels all the time, not only for variety and new resources, but because they need dumbed down novels because novels the students read 10 years ago are too hard now. The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn were written for kids, 10, 11, 12 years old...those books are now senior texts!

The longer I teach in a state high school, the more I support private education or home schooling. Unfortunately, all four of my grand daughters go to state schools and I wish they didn't.
 
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