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Thread: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown[W:181]

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

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    Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown[W:181]It's getting heated in here. The personal comments and baiting needs to stop now. Stick to the topic, which is not each other or discussions of who is or is not a founder.
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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Because congress has over the years made certain exemptions. They can do it, the president cannot.
    Sigh...is it your position that the reason the CONTRACTED PRIESTS were denied access to the building was because they did NOT have a contract? Surely all you have to do is present some sort of evidence to that fact. Thats absolutely NOT in evidence based on the very short article listed in the OP. FACT...MULTIPLE Contracts and contractors are in place right now...today...and have in fact reported every day since the 'furlough' began. No continuing res, no advance permission from congress...that whole line of argument is just BS. The parks werent shut down because of contracts. Nowhere in that article are you going to find ANYTHING that shows thats why the chapel doors were barred. Other chapel services kept right on ticking. The funding issue and contract issue is simply smoke.
    "The chapel doors were locked and the sign said, “Shutdown: No Catholic service till further notice.”

    thats all you have.

  3. #183
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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Which means you wait until you get off duty. Sailors only have duty one day (unless they have weekend duty for some commands, but they would then have it Sat and Sun, which means Mon they would be free to go to religious services offbase). There are plenty of watches that onduty personnel cannot leave the ship for and they are 24 hour watches. (On my ship, on duty meant we weren't supposed to leave the ship without permission that was conservatively given anyway, even just going on base, no matter which watches we had.) This would mean plenty of sailors wouldn't be able to go to those religious services, no matter where they are. If there is a policy though that members could leave the ship for religious services (not required as a policy though), I'm willing to bet that they would make exceptions for leaving the base though, within reason, for those members to attend civilian services.

    Sunday, SUNDAY is a Holy Day of Obligation for Catholics. So, it doesn't matter what they where able to do on Monday. Priests per canon law are suppose to only preform Mass once a day, exceptions are made for certain parishes which allow no more than having Mass twice in one day by the same Priest. I don't think the Navy has gotten that much more kinder and gentler that it's going o allow their entire Duty roster to leave base.

    But this is now all leading into speculation and there is no need in arguing on that. The bottom line is that it was within the bounds of Obama's power to allow Mass to be said voluntarily, and he didn't allow it.


    The law exists and they cannot perform those functions onbase as official clergy even voluntarily. It goes into liability.
    As the article I provided(which was footnoted) stated that only is if the possibility of future claims of compensation were present which in this case, wouldn't be a factor.

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Sigh...is it your position that the reason the CONTRACTED PRIESTS were denied access to the building was because they did NOT have a contract? Surely all you have to do is present some sort of evidence to that fact. Thats absolutely NOT in evidence based on the very short article listed in the OP. FACT...MULTIPLE Contracts and contractors are in place right now...today...and have in fact reported every day since the 'furlough' began. No continuing res, no advance permission from congress...that whole line of argument is just BS. The parks werent shut down because of contracts. Nowhere in that article are you going to find ANYTHING that shows thats why the chapel doors were barred. Other chapel services kept right on ticking. The funding issue and contract issue is simply smoke.
    "The chapel doors were locked and the sign said, “Shutdown: No Catholic service till further notice.”

    thats all you have.
    And we see the problem. Read some of the links in this thread not in the OP. I recommend in particular the link to snopes on page 5.
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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Yeah, it is called making people feel the pain of the shutdown the republicans have forced upon us. I am perfectly fine with that. It should be painful. You should not use the budget to try and remove things you cannot remove otherwise. They cannot get Obamacare voted out and it is not OK to attach it to strip it from everything else. We fund the programs we pass and that is it. If the republicans do not like it they can try to repeal obamacare through the proper channels. Yes, I am perfectly fine with you being bothered because you do not get your perks while you pitch your fit. I totally agree with Obama making it hard on the crying baby republicans in the house. They need a good time out. Let them cry it out.
    So you're fine with a tyrant as long as he's your tyrant, got it! No further conversation with you is necessary. To you I say good day!

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And we see the problem. Read some of the links in this thread not in the OP. I recommend in particular the link to snopes on page 5.
    1-Snopes, while being a wonderful resource, is written and maintained by PEOPLE...people who interpret things. 2-Rogue posted a link showing that in fact contract priests ARE STILL WORKING, shockingly in spite of the ADA which you are continuing to hang your hat on. 3-NUMEROUS contract positions are similarly actively and gainfully employed, despite your argument re the ADA, as are NUMEROUS federal employees deemed exempt.

    "A number of factors affect whether private-sector workers remain on the job during a shutdown, including whether they support “essential” government functions and whether their duties are funded through past appropriations or scheduled for payment with future funding bills."

    Mind you...STILL not relevant as there is ZERO indication that the priest was barred because his contract was not funded.

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You did not read your source well. Exceptions can be made...by congress. The president does not have that authority. So again, you are complaining that the president is following the law.
    It is the executive branch (through the AG and/or the Comptroller General (who is appointed by the President)) which determines if those exceptions are allowed...

    I read my source fine thanks.

    *Just to cut you off at the pass, yes the Comptroller General is in the Legislative Branch. (but as an appointee of the President it is a reasonable expectation that the Executive Branch influence would hold sway regarding policy such as this, as it is within its scope to permit such exemptions which obviously meet the criteria but weren't given. Politics at play)
    Last edited by ChezC3; 10-10-13 at 06:09 PM. Reason: addendum

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    • Army Community Service programs to include Army Emergency Relief, Family Advocacy Victim Advocates and SHARP will be open.
    • Contractors will continue the processing of identification cards and DEERS enrollment at the Directorate of Human Resources.
    • Initial military training will continue, however professional military education will not.
    • All firefighters, Department of the Army police and guards have been exempted from the furlough and will continue to report for duty.
    • The Raymond W. Bliss Army Health Center will continue full services during the shutdown. No appointments will be canceled and the appointment line will remain open. The pharmacy will remain open during normal operating hours.
    • The Fort Huachuca Accommodation School District will remain fully operational during the shutdown.
    just the first sampling typed in to Google. And Ft Huachuca is a SMALL installation....

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    They wired a WW2 Memorial shut that is privately funded.
    American Battle Monuments Commission

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Obama is never responsible for anything. He'd NEVER use Government tools for political purposes.
    A direct quote from Bronson.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    American Battle Monuments Commission

    A direct quote from Bronson.
    Closed WWII memorial funded 'almost entirely by private contributions' - Washington Times

    But according to its website, the memorial “was funded almost entirely by private contributions, as specified in Public Law 103-32. The campaign received more than $197 million in cash and pledges. Support came from hundreds of thousands of individual Americans, hundreds of corporations and foundations, veterans groups, dozens of civic, fraternal and professional organizations, states and one territory, and students in 1,200 schools across the country.
    Obama had the money to hire thugs to wire that memorial shut but not pay military families

    So tell everyone why we should let Obama control our HC after the way he's treated the family members of those military KIA

    Why should Obama and his cronies be able to exempt themselves and their hand picked corporations from Obamacare is it's such a wonderful law? The thuggery and corruption on display is breathtaking

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