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Thread: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown[W:181]

  1. #151
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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    "Separation of Church and State" doesn't exist in the Constitution
    I suggest you read it again. The phrase does not occur, though it is in the First Amendment, and is an idea that Jefferson , James Madison and John Adams believed in.

    “The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.”
    ― James Madison
    “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
    ― John Adams
    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag...urch-and-state

    Maybe not George Washington, but I've given you 3 founders. Which is more than the zero that you assert.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  2. #152
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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    MWR funds are NAF dollars. They are both provided by MWR sales (MWR is required to be a money making venture) and supplemental command directed dollars. However...Im not really sure why that is a relevant question. The Pisgah Inn was a completely privately funded venture as are several concessions. They were forced closed by the administration by expending previously unused resources and blocking off roads. Commissaries on military installations were forced closed. And apparently a chapel on a military installation was forced closed. Golf course? nah...

    Its not about the funding issue. Its about how extraordinarily petulant and childish this administration is.
    Commissaries run at a loss. They are paid for by government funding. Exchanges stayed open because they are nonprofits that give what profit they make to MWR. The chapel was closed on those bases because they do not have chaplains, but contracted clergy services. Private clergy come in and use the chapel. There is a difference. And there was already a post on here that showed that this is a law that they cannot perform contracted services during a government shutdown, not even on volunteer basis. It is a legal issue.

    The government shutdown is due to the childishness of Congress.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #153
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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Commissaries run at a loss. They are paid for by government funding. Exchanges stayed open because they are nonprofits that give what profit they make to MWR. The chapel was closed on those bases because they do not have chaplains, but contracted clergy services. Private clergy come in and use the chapel. There is a difference. And there was already a post on here that showed that this is a law that they cannot perform contracted services during a government shutdown, not even on volunteer basis. It is a legal issue.

    The government shutdown is due to the childishness of Congress.
    Those private clergy are paid to do so. the contract was already awarded.Was the base shut down? Of course not because there numerous functions ongoing. You can spin it however you like. The funding issue is a red herring and blocking of the chapel, like shutting down the commissaries and blocking roads to shutdown open air monuments is petty and childish.

  4. #154
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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Those private clergy are paid to do so. the contract was already awarded.Was the base shut down? Of course not because there numerous functions ongoing. You can spin it however you like. The funding issue is a red herring and blocking of the chapel, like shutting down the commissaries and blocking roads to shutdown open air monuments is petty and childish.
    Yes, and there is also a law saying that those contracted clergy cannot be paid to do so during a shutdown.

    Hey, I was impacted by the shutdown of the commissary much more than most of the people on this board, yet I also see how it is part of what happens. It sucks, but it is little different than earlier this year (during fiscal '13) when the commissary had to shutdown every Monday vice being open every single day for us, funding. The NEX was open still though. Different funding.

    I don't have to like something or even agree with it to understand why it should be done. Instead of acting like petulant children, some people need to step back and actually look at this thing using logic rather than politics.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #155
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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes, and there is also a law saying that those contracted clergy cannot be paid to do so during a shutdown.

    Hey, I was impacted by the shutdown of the commissary much more than most of the people on this board, yet I also see how it is part of what happens. It sucks, but it is little different than earlier this year (during fiscal '13) when the commissary had to shutdown every Monday vice being open every single day for us, funding. The NEX was open still though. Different funding.

    I don't have to like something or even agree with it to understand why it should be done. Instead of acting like petulant children, some people need to step back and actually look at this thing using logic rather than politics.
    Care to take a stab at just how many contracted positions were NOT barred admittance? Would housing and facilities maintenance surprise you? How about Domestic Violence Response Coordinators, Victims Advocates, Sexual Assault Response Coordinators, ASAP providers, etc? How about NEC Help Desk contractors, what do you think...think they were barred? Different colors of money, different pockets...but all still were able to gain access. How about AD Chaplains? Think they were barred?
    Oh...and I didnt even mention the MFLACS and the Family Advocacy providers. Exceptional Family member program respite care providers...etc

    Petty. Petulant. Childish. Screw you, old vets...you cant walk on an open monument. Its not allowed. Wait...hey...illegal immigration group...you guys are OK. But you guys...**** you...

  6. #156
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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This all depends on how you look at it. If there are laws in place that say certain things/government services that cannot operate during a government shutdown, without specific things being paid for first by the government, then he is following those laws. Plus, what would happen if someone were at one of those places and got hurt during a government shutdown? What pays for the insurance at government owned parks or is it simply reliant on the court system to deal with it?

    Seriously? LOL! You have major issues. I voted for McCain in the first election and neither the second. I consider Obama unqualified for the job and disagree with plenty things he does, but I simply think it is stupid to place blame on the President for every single thing, especially something that is much more easily avoided by simply coming to an agreement on time and stop acting like children, something that is Congress's fault, not Obama's.
    Are you seriously pulling out the "I voted for McCain card" card?

    How much are you getting paid to type this nonsense? Why weren't the families of those military KIA paid their benefits by Obama and Hagel?

    Why does Obama need to use resources to wire shut WW2 Memorials. The comical lengths his supporters go to shamelessly defend his Fascism is hilarious

    Obama even shut down the Amber Alert website. This shutdown theatre is the same thing as the IRS. Targeting and harassing Americans and using the powers/tools of Government to do it. Textbook fascist thuggery.

  7. #157
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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Are you seriously pulling out the "I voted for McCain card" card?

    How much are you getting paid to type this nonsense? Why weren't the families of those military KIA paid their benefits by Obama and Hagel?

    Why does Obama need to use resources to wire shut WW2 Memorials. The comical lengths his supporters go to shamelessly defend his Fascism is hilarious

    Obama even shut down the Amber Alert website. This shutdown theatre is the same thing as the IRS. Targeting and harassing Americans and using the powers/tools of Government to do it. Textbook fascist thuggery.
    They will be paid, in fact, they already passed a bill to do so. So going off on this like it was something done on purpose is plain stupidity.

    Bill to Pay Military Death Benefits Heads to Obama - ABC News

    The military was only funded for the pay for its living troops and month to month til the shutdown. It was not funded for another 2.9 million additional funds to pay for death benefits with the earlier bill. It sucks, but it is what it is. It all comes down to funding and what can legally be paid.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I suggest you read it again. The phrase does not occur, though it is in the First Amendment, and is an idea that Jefferson , James Madison and John Adams believed in.
    Again, you're ignorant of what's in The Constitution and in the first Amendment

    The First Amendment says

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...
    Where are the words "Separation of Church state"? Again, you lied. Par for the course.

    What the FA is saying is that Congress can't make up it's own religion and force everyone to worship whatever God they create. The Government can't tell Baptists to practice their faith like Catholics. The Founders (as men) were CLEARLY influenced heavily by the words and teachings of Jesus Christ and God. You're misinterpreting the reason why Jefferson ever even wrote that letter. He was writing to Baptists and letting them know that the Government will never intervene in how they practice their faith. You're on these boards defending the guy who is doing exactly that. Obama, who for petty petulant reasons, is telling Christians they cannot practice their faith. He will even use his goons to make sure they can't worship.

    Jefferson never would have approved of shutting down church services, especially to gain political points. The values, morality and principles of The Founders is completely foreign and alien to a corrupt fascist Obot.


    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag...urch-and-state

    Maybe not George Washington, but I've given you 3 founders. Which is more than the zero that you assert.
    George Washington was clearly a devout Christian and never believed that it was Government's job to stop people from worshiping in Public, even on Federal Land.

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They will be paid, in fact, they already passed a bill to do so. So going off on this like it was something done on purpose is plain stupidity.

    Bill to Pay Military Death Benefits Heads to Obama - ABC News

    The military was only funded for the pay for its living troops and month to month til the shutdown. It was not funded for another 2.9 million additional funds to pay for death benefits with the earlier bill. It sucks, but it is what it is. It all comes down to funding and what can legally be paid.
    Obama could have written an executive order to fund these families' benefits in a second. His closest advisers knew about this DAYS AGO. The Pentagon is the most well funded institution in Government. You're telling me Obama can pay for armed private security to keep people out of Independence Hall, but as Commander in Chief and HIS appointed lackey running The Pentagon, they didn't have the money and couldn't have taken action to fly these families to the funerals of their fallen loved ones? I just want to know how much you're being paid to shill for Obama's thuggish nonsense.

    You're about 5 talking points behind and only continue to expose yourself with endless buffoonery

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Care to take a stab at just how many contracted positions were NOT barred admittance? Would housing and facilities maintenance surprise you? How about Domestic Violence Response Coordinators, Victims Advocates, Sexual Assault Response Coordinators, ASAP providers, etc? How about NEC Help Desk contractors, what do you think...think they were barred? Different colors of money, different pockets...but all still were able to gain access. How about AD Chaplains? Think they were barred?
    Oh...and I didnt even mention the MFLACS and the Family Advocacy providers. Exceptional Family member program respite care providers...etc

    Petty. Petulant. Childish. Screw you, old vets...you cant walk on an open monument. Its not allowed. Wait...hey...illegal immigration group...you guys are OK. But you guys...**** you...
    You know, its funny. I link to a source that explains the law, and yet people keep right on blaming Obama for a law from 1870. The law provides for exceptions for personell necessary for risk to health or property, and congress, not the president, has the authority to exempt others.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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