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Thread: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown[W:181]

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I didn't say "religious Government" and yes it matters
    You're right. You said the founding fathers would have disagreed with Rogue's claim: religion and government should be kept separate.

    You assertion that they would have all disagreed is proven false by Jefferson's words. Whether you like it or not, he's a founding father.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lol, are you denying Thomas Jefferson was a Founding Father? A Founding Father who clearly opposed the union of church & state? A Founding Father who through his work blows you claim on "all of them" opposing separation of church & state out of the water?
    Are you denying Jefferson was an admirer of Jesus Christ? That he didn't share Jesus' values and principles? That his morality and perception on how a Government should fit in society wasn't molded by his admiration of Christ. Jefferson writes one letter and that supposed to mean you can't even pray in public. Jefferson wasn't some Prog/Fascist/Socialist.

    Secondly why don't you focus on the men who were actually present when The Constitution was debated, drafted and signed? Oh that's right you can't do that because then your Jefferson strawman goes up in flames.

    Let's talk about the men who were actually not out of the country when The Bill of Rights and Constitution were drafted/debated/signed. What say you

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're right. You said the founding fathers would have disagreed with Rogue's claim: religion and government should be kept separate.

    You assertion that they would have all disagreed is proven false by Jefferson's words. Whether you like it or not, he's a founding father.
    After Washington put his hand on The Bible and took the oath what did he and everyone go do

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Are you denying Jefferson was an admirer of Jesus Christ? That he didn't share Jesus' values and principles? That his morality and perception on how a Government should fit in society wasn't molded by his admiration of Christ. Jefferson writes one letter and that supposed to mean you can't even pray in public. Jefferson wasn't some Prog/Fascist/Socialist.
    His personal beliefs are not what is in question here. What is in question is whether he supported a separation of church and state. He clearly did which makes you statement false.

    Secondly why don't you focus on the men who were actually present when The Constitution was debated, drafted and signed?
    Because they're not the only only founding fathers. Jefferson is a FF too.

    The Constitution of the United States: Fast Facts - National Constitution Center

    Two of America’s Founding Fathers didn’t sign the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson was representing his country in France and John Adams was doing the same in Great Britain.
    Let's talk about the men who were actually not out of the country when The Bill of Rights and Constitution were drafted/debated/signed. What say you
    I say the same thing which has been explained to you: They're not the only Founding Fathers. As already shown to you over and over again. Out of the 55 - only 39 actually signed the Constitution even though they actually debated it. Does that make them founding fathers? Or are only signers FFs? Well, then there is still Washington who most definitely signed it and thought church and state should be kept separate.

    After Washington put his hand on The Bible and took the oath what did he and everyone go do
    Yes, for the same reason Muslims are allowed to put take oath with a Koran, and John Quincy Adams took an oath on a law book. It represents their personal beliefs, not their applications of personal beliefs to law. You're making a ridiculously flawed argument by linking personal religious views to whether or not a person supports separation of church and state.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    So, I have a quick question. The thread title is about priests being arrested, or at least threatened with arrest. Yet the linked article in the OP says nothing about this. There's bits in the comments where people speculate that the president will arrest these priests, but no one has actually said that they're going to.

    So, what's the deal here? The actual story is that a church was closed because of the shutdown. That's what happens when you shut things down. They close. What's with the talk about arrests? Why the lies in the OP?
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post

    Let's talk about the men who were actually not out of the country when The Bill of Rights and Constitution were drafted/debated/signed. What say you
    Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).
    -James Madison

    Madison was there. Agreed with the principle of the Separation of Church and State.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    He's so funny to watch when it comes to that question. Have you realized he has never once admitted where the golf course's funding comes from? I wonder why? He just keeps diverting to how much we hate the troops and Jesus and capitalism.
    Yeah, there are times where I'll read **** on here and I actually become embarrassed to be a member. And it's always the same people in every thread.


    It's like how the **** do these people manage to survive and not end up trying to plug in a fork?

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    His personal beliefs are not what is in question here. What is in question is whether he supported a separation of church and state. He clearly did which makes you statement false.



    Because they're not the only only founding fathers. Jefferson is a FF too.

    The Constitution of the United States: Fast Facts - National Constitution Center





    I say the same thing which has been explained to you: They're not the only Founding Fathers. As already shown to you over and over again. Out of the 55 - only 39 actually signed the Constitution even though they actually debated it. Does that make them founding fathers? Or are only signers FFs? Well, then there is still Washington who most definitely signed it and thought church and state should be kept separate.



    Yes, for the same reason Muslims are allowed to put take oath with a Koran, and John Quincy Adams took an oath on a law book. It represents their personal beliefs, not their applications of personal beliefs to law. You're making a ridiculously flawed argument by linking personal religious views to whether or not a person supports separation of church and state.
    "Separation of Church and State" doesn't exist in the Constitution

    It's really quite simple, but you want to light a match in your field of strawmen and continue to bleet about Jefferson

    The morality of The Founders (including Jefferson) which directly shaped their views on Government's role in your life, was DIRECTLY influenced by the words and teachings of Jesus Christ

    That has nothing to do with a "state religion". Even Jefferson handed out "Bibles" at taxpayer expense. He wasn't a prog/atheist/Obot. Hugo Black (A KKK Democrat) is who made "Separation of Church and State" mean you can't even say God in Public. Why do you support something a klansman would say? Are you racist?

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Again, the gulf course is on open military installations and pays for itself, either by its own profits or MWR funds, which are not government provided. The people who take care of the Memorials are paid with taxpayer funds.

    The government shutdown did all those things, not Obama. And that is if they actually happened as being reported rather than people using such things to attack Obama. The "blocking of the highway" was not as reported. They weren't trying to block everything, but rather funnel people through without tying up traffic or causing problems. And those "homes" were vacation homes, not their actual places of residence.

    Shutdown forces owners to leave Lake Mead homes | Las Vegas Review-Journal
    MWR funds are NAF dollars. They are both provided by MWR sales (MWR is required to be a money making venture) and supplemental command directed dollars. However...Im not really sure why that is a relevant question. The Pisgah Inn was a completely privately funded venture as are several concessions. They were forced closed by the administration by expending previously unused resources and blocking off roads. Commissaries on military installations were forced closed. And apparently a chapel on a military installation was forced closed. Golf course? nah...

    Its not about the funding issue. Its about how extraordinarily petulant and childish this administration is.

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    "Separation of Church and State" doesn't exist in the Constitution
    Of course it does. As supported by case after case that backs the free exercise of religion.

    The morality of The Founders (including Jefferson) which directly shaped their views on Government's role in your life, was DIRECTLY influenced by the words and teachings of Jesus Christ
    Really? Which part of Jesus' teaching is this based on:

    All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.
    Lol, your arguments are so easily disputable.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    You're just bleeting the talking points

    Obama has even hired private security goons to block Independence Hall

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N078jMaPA5M

    Obama actually used more resources to shut down the WW2 memorials that would ever be used to keep them open. They are open parks. Obama has even shut down the grand canyon. It just amazes me that disgusting filthy people continue to defend this Fascism and abuse of power. Why do are defending such corruption? That's the real question.

    Fortunately people are seeing through this pattern of Obama abusing his power like a fascist dictator. From NSA spying to IRS target and harassment. This is just another example of many.

    You should be asking yourself why your Messiah would deny the families of military KIA their benefits too
    This all depends on how you look at it. If there are laws in place that say certain things/government services that cannot operate during a government shutdown, without specific things being paid for first by the government, then he is following those laws. Plus, what would happen if someone were at one of those places and got hurt during a government shutdown? What pays for the insurance at government owned parks or is it simply reliant on the court system to deal with it?

    Seriously? LOL! You have major issues. I voted for McCain in the first election and neither the second. I consider Obama unqualified for the job and disagree with plenty things he does, but I simply think it is stupid to place blame on the President for every single thing, especially something that is much more easily avoided by simply coming to an agreement on time and stop acting like children, something that is Congress's fault, not Obama's.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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