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Thread: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

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    Re: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I don't have any statistics, and heck I'm not even sure I'm right, but tell you what, see if you can do a little digging and tell me when was the last time someone won national office and had less money than the other guy.
    Romney spent more.

    The 2012 Money Race: Compare the Candidates - NYTimes.com
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    Re: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Using money to buy an ad allows corporations to create "advocacy ads" on specific issues, which can then be used against a candidate's opponent.
    How is that not speech?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    What happens when demand exceeds supply? Prices rise. It means only those with the largest bankroll will be heard.

    How the hell do you think people win elections? By having more money to get their name and message out there. I don't have any statistics, and heck I'm not even sure I'm right, but tell you what, see if you can do a little digging and tell me when was the last time someone won national office and had less money than the other guy.

    That's all politics is nowadays. Who has the most money, not who is the best person for the job. And no it doesn't always equate to he with the most money has the most support, only the most supporters with the biggest check books.
    So we should just leave it up to whoever owns media then...no thanks, that would just be mindless.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Freedom is equality in government, that means everyone having the ability to be heard equally, no just those that can afford the microphone.
    Wherever did you get that idea of freedom? Sounds like a nice feel good sounding socialistic philosophy, but dealing in the real world, that is not what freedom is. If everyone were heard equally nobody would be heard at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Taking away private funding would solve this.
    How would taking away private funding solve this? Fairness is impossible, everyone has his/her own perspective on what fairness might be, that is exactly why humans can never attain a utopia, it might be some people's idea of utopia, but they would have to force it on the rest of us that have different ideas...


    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    First off let's make sure we're on the same page. There is no Working Class Left versus Corporatist Right. You do know this? There is the two headed behemoth that is Big Government/ Big Business. They might squabble about which head they want to control the body. But it is one body.
    The national schematic has never been wired anywhere like what you describe in the first place, that would be just a simplistic illusion. Many of the Big Business types have been from the left, its nothing new, have always been, and many of the working class have come and are of the right...so what is your point?

    You certainly will not resolve the problem of which you speak by just letting that one body with two heads just let the one head of the snake have its way... I am saying open it up, let those of us who want to pool our money [ there are more of us than the rich corporate and media types ] and use it the way WE want it to be used... you way just allows them to forever keep their stranglehold on us all.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    No further proof is necessary to show the deception of choice, of freedom in this country than the ability of some self appointed governing body which is a corporation which sets the standards arbitrarily and denies candidate access to public national debates. In 2000 with Ralph Nader and in 2012 with Gary Johnson, two candidates which had the credentials, had the knowledge, and in the latter case had the experience which was heads above any of the 4 corporate approved schmucks who where in those elections.
    That sounds good, and I do not like folks I might be willing to vote for being excluded either. Johnson was my governor when I lived in Albuquerque. Bright and hardworking guy... fact of the matter is you have to be able to generate sufficient interest nationwide, have to be able to break out a bit.

    Whether we like it or not, some body has to make such decisions, decisions I may not agree with, but we cannot have 1000 candidates on the same stage, or 5000 or 50,000 having microphones...sorry, that simply is not a tenable idea. And while it is an exaggeration of your view, it illustrates the problem.

    The field has to be winnowed, narrowed down somehow, just like they do in the Olympics with only the top tier athletes competing. If you do not like the current system, motivate and go out and create a new one, that's where real freedom comes in. Nobody is stopping you, you have freedom of speech, freedom of assembly...with those two you have the right to try to go and and convince enough people to believe like you do... most often that will require some money. Why leave it to those who already have media in their pockets when you might have sources of getting your information out there less expensively these days...whether you do or not, why should you be stopped?

    The only way to stop Big Business being in bed with Big government, however, is to quit sending Big Gov so much of our hard earned money...reduce the size and scope of government and that will reduce the hold Big Business has over us all. Don't feed both heads of the snake.

    I certainly have no desire to allow MSM to keep giving me presidents I do not want...


    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    By allowing for corporate money to be funneled into politics you are perpetuating this travesty. You are feeding the two-headed beast. You are allowing this country, and you yourself to be controlled by the monied class. You are not allowing this government to be one of the people, but of the corporations.


    and that is just another thing I can't support.
    Not everything has to be corporations, that is not what the tea parties started out as, is not what the tea parties are today... they are grass roots groups of like minded folk loosely allied with other similar groups and they have had quite a bit of impact.

    I do not want the establishment of either party calling all the shots, I like that the tea party has forced us all to reevaluate an ostensibly establishment Obama and his plans for radically transforming our nation away from a country I can love. I like that those tea partiers in the House have bucked the establishment, are making us all focus on what are the true problems, not just spending more, avoiding the issued until we all sink under the weight of the debt, mortgaged into slavery, to the point that we will be simply be unable to pay and all will quit letting us borrow our way, not out of, but into just kicking the can down the road for the problems to get worse.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

    If you look at aggregate spending, the party that spent less won a little less than half the time.

    Money is certainly important, but it is not so decisive that it justifies speech controls.

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    Re: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    Looks like Mitch might want to sell himself to the highest bidder.

    I have to wonder what it would be like to own a politician.

    What do you all think about individuals being able to buy a politician ?

    Thoughts or comments ?
    politicians are bought and paid through political campaign donations everyday. Corporations and Wall Street give hundreds of millions to candidates of both parties. They are pretty smart about it though, they will give the majority of their money to incumbents and then a smaller portion to the challengers to ensure that in case the challenger wins, they will still owe them. From 2006 to around July of 2010, the Democrats received more corporation and wall street money than the republicans only because they had the most incumbents. That changed with the writting on the wall in July of 2010 that the republicans would take over the house. Since then the Republicans have been the party to receive more money from corporations.

    This is one reason incumbents are so hard to beat. The moneyed few have a vested interest in keeping their existing elected officials owing them.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    6 million out of a billion isn't much of a difference. Obama raised more though. The big gap between candidates was in 2008 where according to ABC News Obama spent 750 million to McCain's 322 million. Now that is what I call a big difference, not 6 million when both candidate spent close to a billion each.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    6 million out of a billion isn't much of a difference. Obama raised more though.
    It doesn't matter who raised more. If you don't spend it, it doesn't do anything for you.

    The big gap between candidates was in 2008 where according to ABC News Obama spent 750 million to McCain's 322 million. Now that is what I call a big difference, not 6 million when both candidate spent close to a billion each.
    McCain also ostentatiously, and stupidly, suspended his campaign.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    It doesn't matter who raised more. If you don't spend it, it doesn't do anything for you.



    McCain also ostentatiously, and stupidly, suspended his campaign.
    that was only for a day or two. The wind of change was apparent in 2008, Americans were tired of GOP rule and the economy was in the tank. America had spoken in 2006 as far as congress went and added emphasis to that sentiment in 2008 with the election of Obama. I think 2008 was one of those election that it didn't matter who the candidates were, the Democrat was going to win. It was in the air.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Mitch McConnell to Argue Free Speech Case Before Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    that was only for a day or two. The wind of change was apparent in 2008, Americans were tired of GOP rule and the economy was in the tank. America had spoken in 2006 as far as congress went and added emphasis to that sentiment in 2008 with the election of Obama. I think 2008 was one of those election that it didn't matter who the candidates were, the Democrat was going to win. It was in the air.
    Well, OK, but that being so, what difference did it make how much money was spent?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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