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Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

Lord of Planar said:
I don't know if we willever know the facts behind that event for certain, but I do know this. The Clinton administration did not need to be as authoritative over that action as they were. Can you show me a single incident that warranted such a show and use of force, against US citizens? So what. They violated laws and regulations that are effectively treasonous of the 2nd amendment. Does that form of a civil protest warrant lethal action?
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THIS is why I say show me where the Clinton Administration ordered the raid. This and later you post it is as if the administration was looking for a fight. And your question response to my question was to ask is it possible for a raid to go forward without the highest level consent.

You claim the Clinton Administration was spoiling for a fight. Now back that up.
 
notquiteright said:
You claim the Clinton Administration was spoiling for a fight. Now back that up.
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The simple fact they assumed to be going into a dangerous situation, and escalating it instead of exercising patience.

People looking for a fight escalate a situation.

People looking for a peaceful solution are far more patient and attempt other means.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I wonder how many people today, who believe the propaganda about McCarthy, have read any of the unclassified files for project Venona...
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None of them have even HEARD of Project Verona or the Pumpkin Papers.
 
Lord of Planar said:
The simple fact they assumed to be going into a dangerous situation, and escalating it instead of exercising patience. People looking for a fight escalate a situation. People looking for a peaceful solution are far more patient and attempt other means.
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Didn't answer my question on how you 'know' the Clinton Administration was involved in the warrant service.

Your pacifist theory of life sounds great, except most 'law and order' CONs would call the Clinton Administration soft on crime. Obviously it can't work in Law Enforcement where the key evidence can be disposed of. Could you imagine a drug raid conducted under the pacifist ROE?

You don't go after a man who already had a shoot-out at the compound with the former owner's son, is suspected of altering ARs to be select fire weapons without being VERY aware it is a dangerous situation.

THAT is the simple fact...
 
Lord of Planar said:
LOL...

Good point. It;'s one of those things I don't place too much thought in, but either accept as good for the "general welfare" or not.

In general, I'm OK with programs that educate and promote healthy values for one becoming self sufficient. We have too many people who need better education.

I support social programs for the elderly and handicapped.

Though I am not very religious in the Christian sense, I like the passage where Jesus (my paraphrase may be a bit off) says "if you give a man a fish, he eats for a day. If you teach him to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

I am against all social programs that do not hold an able bodied individual responsible to get off such programs.
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fair enough conclusion. I can respect your thoughts because you at least recognize the other side, better than most of the others :D
 
head of joaquin said:
Wow, the bot meme mixed in with the Fascism meme, on a thread about Obama as a Marxist.

This is wonderfully lush memery!
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wow, two sentences and three examples of meme abuse

what silliness
 
Dear Teabaggers, and other moronic right-wing scum:

I am an undercover asset for the USA KGB.

I am taking names, and I do not mean your silly little chat room/message board usernames- those are only leads to the real bosom of your existence, which I have already discovered, or will inevitably discover, soon.

When my master (Chairman-Secretary-Commissar BHO) gives me the word I will knock on your door late at night. You will know me when you see me. I will be dressed in black leather, and I will be irresistibly armed, huge and strong. I will cart you off to Siberia (the real Siberia- we have a new New Deal with the Russians) and you will never be heard from again, except by your slave driving guards, and your pitiful fellow inmates.

Get used to the idea, OK? You need to.
 
notquiteright said:
Well the accounts of the frequency in which David went to town are as varied as the number of people recounting them. Not sure a regular pattern is how most described it. A David Thibodeau, member of the Davidians claims Koresh went to town on an infrequent basis. That same Sheriff was the one who wanted the ATF to investigate the Compound, it was he who called them. I suspect after the deaths the sheriff wanted a good amount of distance between himself and the 'Gubmint'. The crime wasn't being David Koresh it was modifying civilian weapons contrary to the 1986 machine gun ban (Reagan era)

If Koresh was wanted for say skipping bail I can see waiting to try and catch him in town, but it was for making 'machine guns' and any warning would have the lower receivers stripped of the select fire parts by simply driving out two pins. The best plan would be to have Koresh, the modified weapons all under the same roof.

I never said the warrant service was well planned or it should have continued once it was known the Davidians had been tipped off. (A reporter asked a relation of Koresh where the compound as, saying there was going to be a raid)

But it wasn't because 'the Administration' wanted a big score....
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I didn't say 'the Administration' wanted a big score, I said the agency, the ATF, wanted a big story, and that's why it notified the media the day before the incident.

The reality was that the Bush Administration was winding down, and the Clinton Administration was taking over the controls of government. When it happened, Janet Reno was going through confirmation hearings in the Senate.

Federal agencies, and the government itself, assume a life of their own, no matter which party or person happens to occupy the White House.
 
Henry David said:
I didn't say 'the Administration' wanted a big score, I said the agency, the ATF, wanted a big story, and that's why it notified the media the day before the incident. The reality was that the Bush Administration was winding down, and the Clinton Administration was taking over the controls of government. When it happened, Janet Reno was going through confirmation hearings in the Senate. Federal agencies, and the government itself, assume a life of their own, no matter which party or person happens to occupy the White House.
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Well I was talking to Planar and his claim to know what 'the administration' was doing and who pushed for the initial raid.

If you have a link to the ATF being the 'leak' to the press, can you post that?

I agree federal agencies may change who is at the top but the devil is in middle manglement.
 
notquiteright said:
Well I was talking to Planar and his claim to know what 'the administration' was doing and who pushed for the initial raid.

If you have a link to the ATF being the 'leak' to the press, can you post that?

I agree federal agencies may change who is at the top but the devil is in middle manglement.
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I never owned a computer until about 1999. What I learned about Waco was the old fashioned way--books and videotape.
 
apdst said:
None of them have even HEARD of Project Verona or the Pumpkin Papers.
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Of course they haven't.

Their mentors haven't told them about such facts.
 
notquiteright said:
Didn't answer my question on how you 'know' the Clinton Administration was involved in the warrant service.
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Are you suggesting Janet Reno is not part of his administration? She definately knew about this operation.

Even before the raid, there was a report that was sent to the Deputy Attorney General.


notquiteright said:
Your pacifist theory of life sounds great, except most 'law and order' CONs would call the Clinton Administration soft on crime.
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I am by no means a pacifist. Events like this and Ruby Ridge are nothing but the government using the laws to exercise their authoritarianism against citizens they don't like. Granted, stupid laws were violated, but these were victimless crimes. The other accusations were actionable. The government agents shouldn't have given any cause for the Dravidian's to think they had to protect themselves.


notquiteright said:
Obviously it can't work in Law Enforcement where the key evidence can be disposed of. Could you imagine a drug raid conducted under the pacifist ROE?
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Wait...

Are you telling me they had no "key evidence" to justify this raid?


notquiteright said:
You don't go after a man who already had a shoot-out at the compound with the former owner's son, is suspected of altering ARs to be select fire weapons without being VERY aware it is a dangerous situation.

THAT is the simple fact...
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Refresh my memory of that prior shootout please. have a link?

Suspected of... So you throw away the 4th amendment? Does suspicion equal probable cause in your mind?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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notquiteright said:
NO incendiary rounds were fired. The tape clearly shows people spreading some sort of liquid and massive flames springing up. Survivors report henchmen of Koresh dumping kerosene and setting it on fire.

The ATF could have and should have taken Koresh in town rather in his compound, but he was violating the arms dealer laws the rest of the valid FFL dealers obey. It was not over reach as the ATF is charged with enforcing firearm sales and David had repeatedly said he would resist, but the assault was poorly planned and executed. The ATF team 'half-assed' it and it bit them.

It only tarnishes Janet Reno's name in the minds of folks who are very partisan. Most accept mistakes were made but the Davidians torched their own building.
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well initial reports from police and others said different,which changed in court.

further it taarnishes janet renos name because it was a fiasco,the fbi admitted to firing incindiary type cs grenades prior to the fire.janet reno also was one who believed foul play was involved and called for an investigation.

numerous amounts of evidence dissapeared,the entire area was leveled and all forensic evidence destroyed 2 weeks later by the state of texas,for such a thing no govt official would destroy forensic evidence especially when they were already being called for investigation unless they wanted to hide it.

in later trials and investigations,it came down to evidence and tesimony,and since nearly no credible evidence was available,it came down to what little evidence was available,like the fbis recordings of people inside claiming to start the fire,yet so inaudible no jury could understand it and sounded like multiple soud recordings spliced together.

heck you can just go to wikipedia and read the controversies section,

Waco siege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


the fact they had illegal weapons was never contested except by a few survovors,however how it was handled and the massive gap in evidence as well as the hasty destruction of forensic evidence that would have remained for months or years under much lesser events.
 
iacardsfan said:
Dear Fearful Citizen,

I don't think you realize that every President that has passed a budget since the Great Depression has been a socialist. Even further than that I am positive you utilize socialistic programs every day, before you start complaining about socialism, stop benefiting from it.

Thanks,
Your friendly brain-dead American
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This is SO ****ing far beyond socialism....

These progressive tyrants are presently authoritarians with a totalitarian goal -- guess what? they don't need a military coup to do it -- they just need a bunch of dumb voters that will let government steal their civil liberties via legislation while the dumb voter believes it's for their own good...

These progressive clowns are absolutely Marxists and Marxism is their goal - they don't call it "Marxism" tho - they call it progress...

The best part is that these progressives in government who you believe are trying to help you don't give a **** about you or your family - to them you're nothing but sheep that need to be herded and controlled while they play aristocrats...
 
Mr.Nick said:
This is SO ****ing far beyond socialism....

These progressive tyrants are presently authoritarians with a totalitarian goal -- guess what? they don't need a military coup to do it -- they just need a bunch of dumb voters that will let government steal their civil liberties via legislation while the dumb voter believes it's for their own good...

These progressive clowns are absolutely Marxists and Marxism is their goal - they don't call it "Marxism" tho - they call it progress...

The best part is that these progressives in government who you believe are trying to help you don't give a **** about you or your family - to them you're nothing but sheep that need to be herded and controlled while they play aristocrats...
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http://touch.dailymotion.com/video/...tion-camps-and-the-need-to-kill-millions_news

I'd argue related...
 
BmanMcfly said:
Larry Grathwohl on Ayers plan for American re-education camps and the need to kill millions - Video Dailymotion

I'd argue related...
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That's their plan..... They don't need a military coup - they just need to "reeducate a new generation" and they got it without firing a shot...

This is all being backed by our federal government with common core, Obamacare, trampling on the Tenth and Second Amendments or the Bill of Rights in general... The ruthless attacks by our federal government on patriot groups and freedom movements. Even the ruthless attacks by the cops (stormtroopers) on the local level......

This is how they do it..... They use the slippery slope.... They slowly will brainwash a new generation while stealing our civil liberties until the government has control over everything -- then we live how they TELL US TO LIVE...

Meanwhile the less educated voters out there think these progressives are just doing this because they have their "best interests in mind"...... Yeah if that was the truth progressives would be focusing on liberty and not authority and dictation..

I saw this coming 10 years ago, and Obamacare is the ultimate tool they will use to dictate every aspect of our life - that's why the progressives and Obama insist the program be funded and pushed ahead - that's the progressive authoritarians "end game" on the US as we know it or better yet knew it...
 
Mr.Nick said:
That's their plan..... They don't need a military coup - they just need to "reeducate a new generation" and they got it without firing a shot...

This is all being backed by our federal government with common core, Obamacare, trampling on the Tenth and Second Amendments or the Bill of Rights in general... The ruthless attacks by our federal government on patriot groups and freedom movements. Even the ruthless attacks by the cops (stormtroopers) on the local level......

This is how they do it..... They use the slippery slope.... They slowly will brainwash a new generation while stealing our civil liberties until the government has control over everything -- then we live how they TELL US TO LIVE...

Meanwhile the less educated voters out there think these progressives are just doing this because they have their "best interests in mind"...... Yeah if that was the truth progressives would be focusing on liberty and not authority and dictation..

I saw this coming 10 years ago, and Obamacare is the ultimate tool they will use to dictate every aspect of our life - that's why the progressives and Obama insist the program be funded and pushed ahead - that's the progressive authoritarians "end game" on the US as we know it or better yet knew it...
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Ran out of tinfoil. What do I do to stop the Obamacare mind rays?
 
Deuce said:
Ran out of tinfoil. What do I do to stop the Obamacare mind rays?
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Yeah because your government could never be nefarious right?

Because authoritarians don't exist in the United States right? well unless they're capitalists right?

Because it's never happened before right? I suppose you know nothing about history because progressives generally don't focus on the past but rather the future by their cult leaders who tell them what the future will be which will end up being the past..

Yeah my tin foil hat....

What are you going to say in 20 years when government treats you like a 10-year-old fat kid? those who decent are in Alaska in a ****ing Gulag?

Why do you feel the need to defend a government that wants to force every citizen and illegal alien to adhere to ideas and partake in programs?

Where is force even mentioned in the Bill of Rights?
 
winston53660 said:
see this why lobotomys are not covered under obamacare!
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Yeah, you sound like some of the German Jewish circa 1930's that loved government and thought it was all just a "conspiracy" or the Russians who thought the Great Leader Stalin would come and save you while you were NICELY being relocated (to Siberia) for a farming project...
 
Mr.Nick said:
This is SO ****ing far beyond socialism....

These progressive tyrants are presently authoritarians with a totalitarian goal -- guess what? they don't need a military coup to do it -- they just need a bunch of dumb voters that will let government steal their civil liberties via legislation while the dumb voter believes it's for their own good...

These progressive clowns are absolutely Marxists and Marxism is their goal - they don't call it "Marxism" tho - they call it progress...

The best part is that these progressives in government who you believe are trying to help you don't give a **** about you or your family - to them you're nothing but sheep that need to be herded and controlled while they play aristocrats...
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You honestly sound so ridiculous and paranoid.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Yeah, you sound like some of the German Jewish circa 1930's that loved government and thought it was all just a "conspiracy" or the Russians who thought the Great Leader Stalin would come and save you while you were NICELY being relocated (to Siberia) for a farming project...
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uhmmm okay:screwy
 
Mr.Nick said:
Yeah because your government could never be nefarious right?

Because authoritarians don't exist in the United States right? well unless they're capitalists right?

Because it's never happened before right? I suppose you know nothing about history because progressives generally don't focus on the past but rather the future by their cult leaders who tell them what the future will be which will end up being the past..

Yeah my tin foil hat....

What are you going to say in 20 years when government treats you like a 10-year-old fat kid? those who decent are in Alaska in a ****ing Gulag?

Why do you feel the need to defend a government that wants to force every citizen and illegal alien to adhere to ideas and partake in programs?

Where is force even mentioned in the Bill of Rights?
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There's a big difference between "defending the government" and pointing out that your crazy, paranoid rants about thought police have zero merit whatsoever.
 
It was an impressive rant though..I must like it..
About his Obamacare and 10 years ago fear, wasn't HeritageCare invented 25 years ago..
Being from the Land of Lincoln, I will never dismiss the great ideas from the GOP..
Save the Union..Interstates..National Parks..Progress--ivism..Their share of Industry, manufacture, invention
Deuce said:
Ran out of tinfoil. What do I do to stop the Obamacare mind rays?
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iacardsfan said:
You honestly sound so ridiculous and paranoid.
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You're not old enough to see it, a willing product or adore Marxism and will defend it by any and all means necessary.

You're either part of the problem or view yourself as part of a solution...

Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?
 
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