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Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

Koresh was f*cking his own children and planning an armed insurrection.
You defend that?:lamo:lamo
BTW they did torch their own compound and Koresh killed his own kids.

Do you know that as fact, or as a liberal lemming?
 
You are certainly entitled to you opinion, but factually you don't have much of a leg to stand on.

He's about as much of a Marxist as many folks are already. If you use class analysis in any way, shape, or form, you are likely already influenced by Marxism. He's just even more so influenced by Marxism, but really, once you step into academia, you're already way beyond redemption for the "there is no class in America" folk. Then we can talk about him believing in communism and the utopia to come of it. In which case, he rejects it by statement and by policy.
 
McCarthy was a pompous ass.

So what.

He was correct!

Largely not, though occasionally he was. The threat of communism, he was largely wrong on. On specific instances of a communistic threat, he was correct.
 
Largely not, though occasionally he was. The threat of communism, he was largely wrong on. On specific instances of a communistic threat, he was correct.

People seem to forget that there was also a sister committee in the House, but they never speak of those folks......only McCarthy.
 
Largely not, though occasionally he was. The threat of communism, he was largely wrong on. On specific instances of a communistic threat, he was correct.
Believe as you wish.

I guess if you want to believe what he was incorrectly accused of, you are correct.

Please keep in kind, he only headed the senate committee for a few of the "red scare" years. The House committee is the one that was responsible for what became known as "McCarthyism," even though he had no part in those proceedings. The man who vilified McCarthy was a leading media voice. Edward Murrow. He abused his media power to vilify McCarthy, who was the only politician very vocal about Communism. Murrow, lost a friend to suicide over the red scare, and blamed McCarthy. McCarthy was only concerned about the spies who were later verified that worked withing our government.
 
Believe as you wish.

I guess if you want to believe what he was incorrectly accused of, you are correct.

Please keep in kind, he only headed the senate committee for a few of the "red scare" years. The House committee is the one that was responsible for what became known as "McCarthyism," even though he had no part in those proceedings. The man who vilified McCarthy was a leading media voice. Edward Murrow. He abused his media power to vilify McCarthy, who was the only politician very vocal about Communism. Murrow, lost a friend to suicide over the red scare, and blamed McCarthy. McCarthy was only concerned about the spies who were later verified that worked withing our government.

I'm well aware of the differences between HUAC and Joe.
 
Maybe you aren't paying attention...

Yes, I know... It costs too much to pay attention!

*durr*if you disagree with me, you're just not paying attention!*durr*

I pay attention just fine. Since day one, this right-wing argument has been that Obama is trying to weaken or destroy the U.S. I thought it was utter nonsense then, and I think it's utter nonsense now. And I don't even like the guy.
 
I don't know if we willever know the facts behind that event for certain, but I do know this. The Clinton administration did not need to be as authoritative over that action as they were. Can you show me a single incident that warranted such a show and use of force, against US citizens? So what. They violated laws and regulations that are effectively treasonous of the 2nd amendment. Does that form of a civil protest warrant lethal action?

Some of 'we' may never decide what happened, I am comfortable with survivor accounts of the henchmen starting the fire. There is certainly no pictures of incendiary rounds being used. Massive evidence the building was very poorly constructed and a fire trap.

The Clinton Administration didn't order the ATF is arrest Koresh at his home, so the start of your statement is flawed. After the botched raid and Federal agents died after the Davidians opened fire first who really thinks ANY administration would just walk away? Can you see BushII just shrugging, snickering and muttering something about 'ya win some ya lose some.' ???

The Davidians were given enough time to decide to come out peacefully, 51 days. How many times have the Right Wing 'law and order' types said, only shows you shouldn't run away from the police, or don't be stupid infront of the cops when the perp is someone ya don't like?

Koresh had a violent past to include a gunfight with the owner's son in a fight for control of the compound. The Rodenville 8 trial ended with a hung jury for Koresh, going by the name- Vernon Howell. in 1989 Howell published his 'New Light' in which he said GAWD told him only he should have sex which the follower's women, the other men should remain celibate.

Now you are trying a CON game to claim lethal action was taken against civil protest. The 'assault' was done only AFTER Federal agents were killed and the Davidians had been given plenty of time to peacefully surrender. The initial raid was conducted against a paranoid man and his followers known to be armed and defiant. IIRC the investigation into the Davidians came after a package broke during a UPS delivery and revealed the trigger groups. So they were not on anyone's radar screen until the Sheriff alerted the ATF.

The Davidians were tipped off the raid was coming and armed themselves for a fight. Rather do what 99% of us would have done, they chose to meet a lawful search team with weapons.

I wonder how supportive most would be if a Paranoid Muslim leader trafficked ARs and full-auto trigger groups had his door kicked in.
 
Well, in my view, we have a Marxist for a president. i have said that since he ran for the senate, and I think a very large number of people agree with me today.

Would that be the same "very large number of people" who vote for the LIBERTARIAN PARTY?
 
I do not disagree with using some socialist type policies. the problem is, we have too much of it.

Note: I just found this thread today, and am going to respond in order. If I cover something already covered.... Sorry.

No problem, I'm just wondering how do we discern "good socialism" from "bad socialism"
 
Some of 'we' may never decide what happened, I am comfortable with survivor accounts of the henchmen starting the fire. There is certainly no pictures of incendiary rounds being used. Massive evidence the building was very poorly constructed and a fire trap.

The Clinton Administration didn't order the ATF is arrest Koresh at his home, so the start of your statement is flawed. After the botched raid and Federal agents died after the Davidians opened fire first who really thinks ANY administration would just walk away? Can you see BushII just shrugging, snickering and muttering something about 'ya win some ya lose some.' ???

The Davidians were given enough time to decide to come out peacefully, 51 days. How many times have the Right Wing 'law and order' types said, only shows you shouldn't run away from the police, or don't be stupid infront of the cops when the perp is someone ya don't like?

Koresh had a violent past to include a gunfight with the owner's son in a fight for control of the compound. The Rodenville 8 trial ended with a hung jury for Koresh, going by the name- Vernon Howell. in 1989 Howell published his 'New Light' in which he said GAWD told him only he should have sex which the follower's women, the other men should remain celibate.

Now you are trying a CON game to claim lethal action was taken against civil protest. The 'assault' was done only AFTER Federal agents were killed and the Davidians had been given plenty of time to peacefully surrender. The initial raid was conducted against a paranoid man and his followers known to be armed and defiant. IIRC the investigation into the Davidians came after a package broke during a UPS delivery and revealed the trigger groups. So they were not on anyone's radar screen until the Sheriff alerted the ATF.

The Davidians were tipped off the raid was coming and armed themselves for a fight. Rather do what 99% of us would have done, they chose to meet a lawful search team with weapons.

I wonder how supportive most would be if a Paranoid Muslim leader trafficked ARs and full-auto trigger groups had his door kicked in.
My problem I think stems from the fact that the entire execution of the warrant was amateurish. It's as if the administration wanted a fight. They even prepared for a fight far above normal protocol like stenciling blood-types on themselves. They should have surrounded the grounds and waited them out for as long as it took, considering the thoughts they had for a standoff/battle. They could have reduced the casualties.
 
Would that be the same "very large number of people" who vote for the LIBERTARIAN PARTY?

I doubt very many self identified libertarians agree with me on that.
 
No problem, I'm just wondering how do we discern "good socialism" from "bad socialism"
LOL...

Good point. It;'s one of those things I don't place too much thought in, but either accept as good for the "general welfare" or not.

In general, I'm OK with programs that educate and promote healthy values for one becoming self sufficient. We have too many people who need better education.

I support social programs for the elderly and handicapped.

Though I am not very religious in the Christian sense, I like the passage where Jesus (my paraphrase may be a bit off) says "if you give a man a fish, he eats for a day. If you teach him to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

I am against all social programs that do not hold an able bodied individual responsible to get off such programs.
 
BWHAAHHAHAHH!

The GOP is largely made up of neo-confederates and neo-McCarthites. What a farce.

So?

I find most of the modern GOP as only twice as good as democrats. As little as I think of democrats, that still very bad...
 
So?

I find most of the modern GOP as only twice as good as democrats. As little as I think of democrats, that still very bad...

Sure because being a devotee of discredited and odious political movements like McCarthyism isn't such a bad thing, right? I mean, you think he was right to attack fellow Americans and destroy their lives based on innuendo and paranoia. So I understand where you're coming from. A tea party fact-free zone.
 
No it isn't.

Legislation passed is making more and more people dependent on government. Once they get enough people "dependent..." They can pretty much scare people into passing what ever form of government they eat!

The only politicians I respect, are those who wish to make us not dependent on government.

True Communism relies on actually having hardly any government involved in the economic or social system... The whole theory is that people will naturally be good to others and share their labors. Whenever there has been a large, authoritative, and centralized government involved in Communism, it has FAILED or done the country no good.

For us not to turn into another USSR, "true" Communists would want statists removed from power, just as much as they would want Libertarians. Communism decries a stateless, classless society. It sounds wonderful but it doesn't work, as either a dictator will rise to power (Dictatorship) or civil war will break out among different parties vying for power.

When there is power to be had, there will be those who will go after it.

To me, Marxism, Fascism, Socialism, Communism... Very little difference!

Yes, I know there are nuances, but in my view, they are all evil.

So as stated above, Socialism and Communism are very different. Communism holds little grounding in reality, while Socialism (depending on its implementation) can hold grounding in society.

I'd agree that Marxism, Fascism, and Communism, in the real world at least, are severely dangerous ideologies to possess.
 
Some of 'we' may never decide what happened, I am comfortable with survivor accounts of the henchmen starting the fire. There is certainly no pictures of incendiary rounds being used. Massive evidence the building was very poorly constructed and a fire trap.

The Clinton Administration didn't order the ATF is arrest Koresh at his home, so the start of your statement is flawed. After the botched raid and Federal agents died after the Davidians opened fire first who really thinks ANY administration would just walk away? Can you see BushII just shrugging, snickering and muttering something about 'ya win some ya lose some.' ???

The Davidians were given enough time to decide to come out peacefully, 51 days. How many times have the Right Wing 'law and order' types said, only shows you shouldn't run away from the police, or don't be stupid infront of the cops when the perp is someone ya don't like?

Koresh had a violent past to include a gunfight with the owner's son in a fight for control of the compound. The Rodenville 8 trial ended with a hung jury for Koresh, going by the name- Vernon Howell. in 1989 Howell published his 'New Light' in which he said GAWD told him only he should have sex which the follower's women, the other men should remain celibate.

Now you are trying a CON game to claim lethal action was taken against civil protest. The 'assault' was done only AFTER Federal agents were killed and the Davidians had been given plenty of time to peacefully surrender. The initial raid was conducted against a paranoid man and his followers known to be armed and defiant. IIRC the investigation into the Davidians came after a package broke during a UPS delivery and revealed the trigger groups. So they were not on anyone's radar screen until the Sheriff alerted the ATF.

The Davidians were tipped off the raid was coming and armed themselves for a fight. Rather do what 99% of us would have done, they chose to meet a lawful search team with weapons.

I wonder how supportive most would be if a Paranoid Muslim leader trafficked ARs and full-auto trigger groups had his door kicked in.

A minor pun intended here, but your recollection of Waco is NotQuiteRight. ;)

The ATF could have had Koresh many many many times, and the local Sheriff, dead now, made that very clear. Koresh had a pattern of behavior in going to town, the Sheriff was familiar with it, and had informed ATF of it.

The feds wanted a big story, and they got one. There was a video put out about that, but I've long since lost it. The feds were completely responsible for what happened.
 
head of joaquin said:
Sure because being a devotee of discredited and odious political movements like McCarthyism isn't such a bad thing, right?
You have it wrong. It really bothers me to see such false history presented. I never said i had good feelings for McCarthy. I am simply adamant that the hatred for him is unfounded, and based on liberal lies.


head of joaquin said:
I mean, you think he was right to attack fellow Americans and destroy their lives based on innuendo and paranoia. So I understand where you're coming from. A tea party fact-free zone.
Please name one person he attacked that isn't shown to be a spy/traitor, or person of suspect in the unclassified Project Venona.

Have you ever done such a search, or are you a lemming to propaganda?
 
My problem I think stems from the fact that the entire execution of the warrant was amateurish. It's as if the administration wanted a fight. They even prepared for a fight far above normal protocol like stenciling blood-types on themselves. They should have surrounded the grounds and waited them out for as long as it took, considering the thoughts they had for a standoff/battle. They could have reduced the casualties.

Do you have any proof that 'the Administration' had any hand in the initial warrant? Please show us all if you do. The blood type stuff was from training with the army prior to the warrant search- I'd call it oh rah crap. Do you have any proof the warrant serving team had any direct contact with 'the Administration'? And using a magic marker isn't 'far and above', no one stencils on skin.

The crime the ATF thought was being committed was installing M16a1 trigger groups into AR15 lowers. It is legal to own both but not to be 'installed'. If not caught in the act then it would be extremely difficult to prove the machine gun manufacturing charge. Stand-off and ask to serve the warrant when it was convenient for the Davidians would allow all the time in the world to alter any select fire ARs back to civilian form.

So the initial warrant service was both amateurish AND excessive???? Seems more like a pick one or the other kind of deal.
 
Do you have any proof that 'the Administration' had any hand in the initial warrant? Please show us all if you do. The blood type stuff was from training with the army prior to the warrant search- I'd call it oh rah crap. Do you have any proof the warrant serving team had any direct contact with 'the Administration'? And using a magic marker isn't 'far and above', no one stencils on skin.

The crime the ATF thought was being committed was installing M16a1 trigger groups into AR15 lowers. It is legal to own both but not to be 'installed'. If not caught in the act then it would be extremely difficult to prove the machine gun manufacturing charge. Stand-off and ask to serve the warrant when it was convenient for the Davidians would allow all the time in the world to alter any select fire ARs back to civilian form.

So the initial warrant service was both amateurish AND excessive???? Seems more like a pick one or the other kind of deal.

Do you think such a ATF action would have occurred without consent at the highest level, which is an executive appointee?
 
A minor pun intended here, but your recollection of Waco is NotQuiteRight. ;) The ATF could have had Koresh many many many times, and the local Sheriff, dead now, made that very clear. Koresh had a pattern of behavior in going to town, the Sheriff was familiar with it, and had informed ATF of it. The feds wanted a big story, and they got one. There was a video put out about that, but I've long since lost it. The feds were completely responsible for what happened.

Well the accounts of the frequency in which David went to town are as varied as the number of people recounting them. Not sure a regular pattern is how most described it. A David Thibodeau, member of the Davidians claims Koresh went to town on an infrequent basis. That same Sheriff was the one who wanted the ATF to investigate the Compound, it was he who called them. I suspect after the deaths the sheriff wanted a good amount of distance between himself and the 'Gubmint'. The crime wasn't being David Koresh it was modifying civilian weapons contrary to the 1986 machine gun ban (Reagan era)

If Koresh was wanted for say skipping bail I can see waiting to try and catch him in town, but it was for making 'machine guns' and any warning would have the lower receivers stripped of the select fire parts by simply driving out two pins. The best plan would be to have Koresh, the modified weapons all under the same roof.

I never said the warrant service was well planned or it should have continued once it was known the Davidians had been tipped off. (A reporter asked a relation of Koresh where the compound as, saying there was going to be a raid)

But it wasn't because 'the Administration' wanted a big score....
 
Do you think such a ATF action would have occurred without consent at the highest level, which is an executive appointee?

Sir, the answer to a question is not another question. You are quite adamant 'the Administration' gave orders, directed, or some such, the Waco warrant service- yet you produce no proof.
 
Sir, the answer to a question is not another question. You are quite adamant 'the Administration' gave orders, directed, or some such, the Waco warrant service- yet you produce no proof.
Where did I say they gave the order? My claim is they are responsible.
 
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