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Thread: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

  1. #171
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    Re: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    My problem I think stems from the fact that the entire execution of the warrant was amateurish. It's as if the administration wanted a fight. They even prepared for a fight far above normal protocol like stenciling blood-types on themselves. They should have surrounded the grounds and waited them out for as long as it took, considering the thoughts they had for a standoff/battle. They could have reduced the casualties.
    Do you have any proof that 'the Administration' had any hand in the initial warrant? Please show us all if you do. The blood type stuff was from training with the army prior to the warrant search- I'd call it oh rah crap. Do you have any proof the warrant serving team had any direct contact with 'the Administration'? And using a magic marker isn't 'far and above', no one stencils on skin.

    The crime the ATF thought was being committed was installing M16a1 trigger groups into AR15 lowers. It is legal to own both but not to be 'installed'. If not caught in the act then it would be extremely difficult to prove the machine gun manufacturing charge. Stand-off and ask to serve the warrant when it was convenient for the Davidians would allow all the time in the world to alter any select fire ARs back to civilian form.

    So the initial warrant service was both amateurish AND excessive???? Seems more like a pick one or the other kind of deal.

  2. #172
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    Re: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Do you have any proof that 'the Administration' had any hand in the initial warrant? Please show us all if you do. The blood type stuff was from training with the army prior to the warrant search- I'd call it oh rah crap. Do you have any proof the warrant serving team had any direct contact with 'the Administration'? And using a magic marker isn't 'far and above', no one stencils on skin.

    The crime the ATF thought was being committed was installing M16a1 trigger groups into AR15 lowers. It is legal to own both but not to be 'installed'. If not caught in the act then it would be extremely difficult to prove the machine gun manufacturing charge. Stand-off and ask to serve the warrant when it was convenient for the Davidians would allow all the time in the world to alter any select fire ARs back to civilian form.

    So the initial warrant service was both amateurish AND excessive???? Seems more like a pick one or the other kind of deal.
    Do you think such a ATF action would have occurred without consent at the highest level, which is an executive appointee?

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    Re: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    A minor pun intended here, but your recollection of Waco is NotQuiteRight. The ATF could have had Koresh many many many times, and the local Sheriff, dead now, made that very clear. Koresh had a pattern of behavior in going to town, the Sheriff was familiar with it, and had informed ATF of it. The feds wanted a big story, and they got one. There was a video put out about that, but I've long since lost it. The feds were completely responsible for what happened.
    Well the accounts of the frequency in which David went to town are as varied as the number of people recounting them. Not sure a regular pattern is how most described it. A David Thibodeau, member of the Davidians claims Koresh went to town on an infrequent basis. That same Sheriff was the one who wanted the ATF to investigate the Compound, it was he who called them. I suspect after the deaths the sheriff wanted a good amount of distance between himself and the 'Gubmint'. The crime wasn't being David Koresh it was modifying civilian weapons contrary to the 1986 machine gun ban (Reagan era)

    If Koresh was wanted for say skipping bail I can see waiting to try and catch him in town, but it was for making 'machine guns' and any warning would have the lower receivers stripped of the select fire parts by simply driving out two pins. The best plan would be to have Koresh, the modified weapons all under the same roof.

    I never said the warrant service was well planned or it should have continued once it was known the Davidians had been tipped off. (A reporter asked a relation of Koresh where the compound as, saying there was going to be a raid)

    But it wasn't because 'the Administration' wanted a big score....

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    Re: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Do you think such a ATF action would have occurred without consent at the highest level, which is an executive appointee?
    Sir, the answer to a question is not another question. You are quite adamant 'the Administration' gave orders, directed, or some such, the Waco warrant service- yet you produce no proof.

  5. #175
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    Re: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Sir, the answer to a question is not another question. You are quite adamant 'the Administration' gave orders, directed, or some such, the Waco warrant service- yet you produce no proof.
    Where did I say they gave the order? My claim is they are responsible.

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    Re: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I don't know if we willever know the facts behind that event for certain, but I do know this. The Clinton administration did not need to be as authoritative over that action as they were. Can you show me a single incident that warranted such a show and use of force, against US citizens? So what. They violated laws and regulations that are effectively treasonous of the 2nd amendment. Does that form of a civil protest warrant lethal action?
    THIS is why I say show me where the Clinton Administration ordered the raid. This and later you post it is as if the administration was looking for a fight. And your question response to my question was to ask is it possible for a raid to go forward without the highest level consent.

    You claim the Clinton Administration was spoiling for a fight. Now back that up.

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    Re: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    You claim the Clinton Administration was spoiling for a fight. Now back that up.
    The simple fact they assumed to be going into a dangerous situation, and escalating it instead of exercising patience.

    People looking for a fight escalate a situation.

    People looking for a peaceful solution are far more patient and attempt other means.

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    Re: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I wonder how many people today, who believe the propaganda about McCarthy, have read any of the unclassified files for project Venona...
    None of them have even HEARD of Project Verona or the Pumpkin Papers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    The simple fact they assumed to be going into a dangerous situation, and escalating it instead of exercising patience. People looking for a fight escalate a situation. People looking for a peaceful solution are far more patient and attempt other means.
    Didn't answer my question on how you 'know' the Clinton Administration was involved in the warrant service.

    Your pacifist theory of life sounds great, except most 'law and order' CONs would call the Clinton Administration soft on crime. Obviously it can't work in Law Enforcement where the key evidence can be disposed of. Could you imagine a drug raid conducted under the pacifist ROE?

    You don't go after a man who already had a shoot-out at the compound with the former owner's son, is suspected of altering ARs to be select fire weapons without being VERY aware it is a dangerous situation.

    THAT is the simple fact...

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    Re: Marxist Takeover of America - It's Happening Now

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    LOL...

    Good point. It;'s one of those things I don't place too much thought in, but either accept as good for the "general welfare" or not.

    In general, I'm OK with programs that educate and promote healthy values for one becoming self sufficient. We have too many people who need better education.

    I support social programs for the elderly and handicapped.

    Though I am not very religious in the Christian sense, I like the passage where Jesus (my paraphrase may be a bit off) says "if you give a man a fish, he eats for a day. If you teach him to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

    I am against all social programs that do not hold an able bodied individual responsible to get off such programs.
    fair enough conclusion. I can respect your thoughts because you at least recognize the other side, better than most of the others
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
    - Mark Twain
    Run your own nation, play Cybernations.

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