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House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures[W:120]

Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

minnie616 said:
Liability is one reason.
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Youre either paying rangers to stand by while people look at the monument, or youre paying rangers/police to stop people from looking at the monument. Whats the difference?
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

jonny5 said:
Youre either paying rangers to stand by while people look at the monument, or youre paying rangers/police to stop people from looking at the monument. Whats the difference?
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Actually they aren't paying many federal employees while requiring they show up for work anyway - with a 'promise' the workers will get paid when the shutdown is ended
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

jonny5 said:
Youre either paying rangers to stand by while people look at the monument, or youre paying rangers/police to stop people from looking at the monument. Whats the difference?
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In most cases less rangers/police are needed to barricade and guard an entrance than to keep the whole area open.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

minnie616 said:
In most cases less rangers/police are needed to barricade and guard an entrance than to keep the whole area open.
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That makes no sense. It takes zero people to let people walk around. Ive been there, there were no federalis.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

minnie616 said:
In most cases less rangers/police are needed to barricade and guard an entrance than to keep the whole area open.
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jonny5 said:
That makes no sense. It takes zero people to let people walk around. Ive been there, there were no federalis.
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I think you're both stretching a point. There are many more personnel on duty than are seen when a federal facility is open, and it's not a trivial matter to secure the perimeter when it's closed.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

jonny5 said:
That makes no sense. It takes zero people to let people walk around. Ive been there, there were no federalis.
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jonny5, I believe what you are missing is that if they allow people onto the property, they accept a certain amount of liability for what happens to those visitors.

When they can't offer basic security or at least some form of insurance, if someone gets hurt then the government will get eaten alive in the lawsuit.

It's boring legalese stuff, but it add up to a lot of money in settlements.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

WillyPete said:
jonny5, I believe what you are missing is that if they allow people onto the property, they accept a certain amount of liability for what happens to those visitors.

When they can't offer basic security or at least some form of insurance, if someone gets hurt then the government will get eaten alive in the lawsuit.

It's boring legalese stuff, but it add up to a lot of money in settlements.
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Really? Show me where anyone has won a liability suit against the federal govt.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

WillyPete said:
jonny5, I believe what you are missing is that if they allow people onto the property, they accept a certain amount of liability for what happens to those visitors.

When they can't offer basic security or at least some form of insurance, if someone gets hurt then the government will get eaten alive in the lawsuit.

It's boring legalese stuff, but it add up to a lot of money in settlements.
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The federal government cannot be sued without its consent.

[h=3]Sovereign immunity in the United States - Wikipedia, the free ...[/h]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States‎
Sovereign immunity in the United States is the legal privilege by which the American federal, state, and tribal governments cannot be sued. Local governments ...
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

Jack Hays said:
I think you're both stretching a point. There are many more personnel on duty than are seen when a federal facility is open, and it's not a trivial matter to secure the perimeter when it's closed.
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This isnt a federal facility. Its an open air park. All youre doing is proving why a investigation is neccesary.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

jonny5 said:
This isnt a federal facility. Its an open air park. All youre doing is proving why a investigation is neccesary.
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Since you have not named the park and seem to want to make this into a guessing game...I will ask a question.

Is it on federal land?
 
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Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

Jack Hays said:
The federal government cannot be sued without its consent.

[h=3]Sovereign immunity in the United States - Wikipedia, the free ...[/h]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States‎
Sovereign immunity in the United States is the legal privilege by which the American federal, state, and tribal governments cannot be sued. Local governments ...
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And yet National Parks do get sued.

From this Blog:
National park sued over 9-year-old boy's death in fallOn behalf of Mary Alexander & Associates, P.C. posted in Premises Liability on Thursday, January 10, 2013

Every year, thousands of visitors visit Lassen Volcanic National Park in northern California seeking fresh air and exercise. For most, the experience is full of excellent hiking and breathtaking vistas. For a pair of Red Bluff parents, however, a family outing turned into a nightmare, leading to the death of their 9-year-old son.

Now, the parents have filed a premises liability suit against the park, claiming that administrators failed to maintain their trails to an acceptable level of safety. Now, both parties are locked in a legal debate that will determine whether the park service was responsible for the conditions that led to the boy's death.
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National park sued over 9-year-old boy's death in fall | San Francisco Personal Injury Law Blog
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

jonny5 said:
This isnt a federal facility. Its an open air park. All youre doing is proving why a investigation is neccesary.
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It is a federal park.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

minnie616 said:
Apparently you do you do not understand how the cost will brought down.

You are using the figures at face value.

By about 2017 , 2018 the fees and the savings will make up for monies spent and the USA will be lower than the deficit neural mark. take a look at the graph in the article I linked.
The following 10 years " about another 1 trillion" will be saved. Therefore our deficit will have been reduced by one trillion in 20 years time.
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Utter nonsense.

The CBO says the ACA will cost the government $1.2 trillion between 2012 and 2022 and you want me to believe some graph created by a couple of liberal "journalists" posted in a liberal newspaper that has a vested interest in protecting this failed President they've been blindly touting for years?

I'm not that stupid.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

CanadaJohn said:
Utter nonsense.

The CBO says the ACA will cost the government $1.2 trillion between 2012 and 2022 and you want me to believe some graph created by a couple of liberal "journalists" posted in a liberal newspaper that has a vested interest in protecting this failed President they've been blindly touting for years?

I'm not that stupid.
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Tell it like it is, brother! Right on!:applaud

Good morning, CJC.:2wave:
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

jonny5 said:
Really? Show me where anyone has won a liability suit against the federal govt.
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Jack Hays said:
The federal government cannot be sued without its consent.
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I believe I qualified my statement properly.

So because they are immune, they don't need to consider such things at all? Why aren't they running tanks in the streets?

That said, this is primarily a calculated political move geared toward ramping up the pressure on the GOP. It's SOP, and that people are complaining just let's them know it's working.

I don't see what a formal investigation would accomplish that an op-ed wouldn't. It's either at their discretion or it's not.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

WillyPete said:
I believe I qualified my statement properly.

So because they are immune, they don't need to consider such things at all? Why aren't they running tanks in the streets?

That said, this is primarily a calculated political move geared toward ramping up the pressure on the GOP. It's SOP, and that people are complaining just let's them know it's working.

I don't see what a formal investigation would accomplish that an op-ed wouldn't. It's either at their discretion or it's not.
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The federal government has no legal exposure, and indeed, if they wished, they could run "tanks in the streets" without any fear of legal repercussions.:peace
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

Jack Hays said:
The federal government has no legal exposure, and indeed, if they wished, they could run "tanks in the streets" without any fear of legal repercussions.:peace
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And yet they do not. My point is that there are other factors in play that make them consider these things.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

WillyPete said:
And yet they do not. My point is that there are other factors in play that make them consider these things.
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I was replying only to the claim of legal exposure. The rest doesn't interest me, so please carry on.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

CanadaJohn said:
Utter nonsense.

The CBO says the ACA will cost the government $1.2 trillion between 2012 and 2022 and you want me to believe some graph created by a couple of liberal "journalists" posted in a liberal newspaper that has a vested interest in protecting this failed President they've been blindly touting for years?

I'm not that stupid.
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First of all you seem to be conveniently forgetting that in the next 10 years $500 billion will be saved in cuts. Also another $400 billion will be added from fines and there will be savings from preventive Health care and non duplicate testing when more patient files are computerized and made accessible to doctors and hospitals.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

minnie616 said:
Since you have not named the park and seem to want to make this into a guessing game...I will ask a question.

Is it on federal land?
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We were talking about the WW2 memorial. THis is not a facility, its land with a bunch of statues on it. Theres no bathrooms, no receptionist, nothing. Its a stone circle with some statues and plaques, and a fountain that doesnt have to be on. The public owns it and gives the NPS the power to regulate it. The NPS is shut down, so there should be no one to stop people going in.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

minnie616 said:
First of all you seem to be conveniently forgetting that in the next 10 years $500 billion will be saved in cuts. Also another $400 billion will be added from fines and there will be savings from preventive Health care and non duplicate testing when more patient files are computerized and made accessible to doctors and hospitals.
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[h=3]Pollyanna - definition of Pollyanna by the Free Online Dictionary ...[/h]www.thefreedictionary.com/Pollyanna‎
A person regarded as being foolishly or blindly optimistic. [After the heroine of the novel Pollyanna, by Eleanor Hodgman Porter (1868-1920), American writer.] ...:peace
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

jonny5 said:
We were talking about the WW2 memorial. THis is not a facility, its land with a bunch of statues on it. Theres no bathrooms, no receptionist, nothing. Its a stone circle with some statues and plaques, and a fountain that doesnt have to be on. The public owns it and gives the NPS the power to regulate it. The NPS is shut down, so there should be no one to stop people going in.
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Those monuments do sit on federal land.
 
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