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Thread: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government [W:100]

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government...

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I very strongly disagree with you. For both sides, this is about power, and the power has corrupted them.
    Yep agree. The sad part is seeing the partisans on both sides eat the rhetoric up like pudding. Don't know when people will realize both sides are playing the American people like a fiddle while they sit fat, happy, and sassy on the government dime.

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Well, once you know how a conservative meme works (and Lakoff analyzes that rigorously), it's easy to imitate. Democrats need to focus on that art. It works.

    But it is true, most of what Lakoff writes about is how not to respond to a conservative framing device. Reverse engineering one, however, is worth doing.
    I strongly disagree.

    I think persuasion science is making it impossible for Americans to communicate.

    I think its a problem in and of itself. Not a tool to covet and advocate.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Where did he say that OTHER than from you making assumptions and putting words in his mouth? I imagine both sides are caring about "winning" BECAUSE they think winning will ultimately be what's best for America, not in spite of it. I think it's laughably ridiculous (shocker that I'M the one called cynical in this thread) to think that any of our politicians are sitting there going "Mwhahaha, this will be ****ty for America but it helps ME WIN! And THAT'S What matters, MWHAHAHA".
    Totally agree dude. Totally. I honestly don't think ANY politician does that. I really don't. I just totally disagree with one sides interpretation of what's best for America. And that's all there is to it. The bad part is that the politicians themselves say things like "He's gonna put you back in chains" etc and they flame that fire.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I strongly disagree.

    I think persuasion science is making it impossible for Americans to communicate.

    I think its a problem in and of itself. Not a tool to covet and advocate.
    We disagree. Vulcan's don't vote in our elections. You have to convince people sitting around kitchen tables. The GOP uses tried and try framing techniques and win. The Democrats must do the same. Otherwise it's bringing a knife to a gun fight.

    This isn't a debating society with Earl of Queensberry rules. It's about the future of our nation and the well-being of millions of people, most of them underrepresented and underpaid. So it's OK to use techniques that work to get votes even if they don't follow Spoke's logic. Indeed, it's required.

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    We disagree. Vulcan's don't vote in our elections. You have to convince people sitting around kitchen tables. The GOP uses tried and try framing techniques and win. The Democrats must do the same. Otherwise it's bringing a knife to a gun fight.

    This isn't a debating society with Earl of Queensberry rules. It's about the future of our nation and the well-being of millions of people, most of them underrepresented and underpaid. So it's OK to use techniques that work to get votes even if they don't follow Spoke's logic. Indeed, it's required.
    The GOP has been winning the messaging battle for a couple decades now. Hell, they even have their very own TV Network.

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    The GOP has been winning the messaging battle for a couple decades now. Hell, they even have their very own TV Network.
    Yeah, it's my major gripe with the Democrats. They think that being rational and factual wins elections. It doesn't. It's good to be rational and it's good to have fact on your side, but that's not enough. You need to have a narrative and since we're dealing with the rightwing noise machine, you need to be able to delegitimize it.

    At that the Democrats have simply been too lackadaisical. Americans like politicians who fight for them, and pommel the other side. And you know, they have a right to like that. Politics isn't for Vulcans.

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    what makes you believe an up/down vote would end it?

    the House passed their CR is an up/down vote already...and Democrats didn't like the outcome.


    negotiation is the very mechanism that operates our government... why would Obama negotiate?.. well, because that's how impasses are solved... that is the job of every elected politician.

    a politician saying he won't negotiate is the same exact thing as saying " I will not do the job i was elected to do"
    the People want negotiations... they want **** solved
    it's only hardcore fanatical Democrats who are supportive of these politicians not doing their job.

    I can't stand either party and most of there politicians... and even i want them to sit down, be adults, and talk.
    ( I also want the LP to capitalize on all these grown children throwing tantrums... but that's neither here nor there)

    he might just win everything he is wanting... in return for future concessions.
    we won't know how it all turns out until he decides to do his job.. and Reid does his job.. and Beohner does his job.
    we'll have to get through all this political posturing bull**** first, though.
    There hasn't been an up/down vote....and Boner won't do it because he knows that if they put an up/down vote, enough Republicans would side with the Democrats to fund to budget without the games that the teabaggers want to play.

    You never negotiate with extortionists. It sets bad precedent and Obama is not going to give into the teabaggers extortion demands. Sorry...it isn't going to happen. Not with 80% of the American public on our side.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    There hasn't been an up/down vote....and Boner won't do it because he knows that if they put an up/down vote, enough Republicans would side with the Democrats to fund to budget without the games that the teabaggers want to play.

    You never negotiate with extortionists. It sets bad precedent and Obama is not going to give into the teabaggers extortion demands. Sorry...it isn't going to happen. Not with 80% of the American public on our side.
    I find that 80% mark a bit difficult to come by, unless you want to stretch disapproval of shutting down government over the ACA by several percentage points. Presidential favor in this situation was at perhaps 55%. According to a CBS poll published today, an overwhelming majority wanted a compromise.

    Most Americans want compromise. Majorities think the President and the Democrats in Congress (76 percent) and the Republicans in Congress (78 percent) should compromise in order to come to an agreement on the budget.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...ore-blame-gop/

    In other words, while an overwhelming majority of the public does not want government shutdowns over the ACA, and blame the GOP for doing so, an overwhelming majority want there to be a compromise on the matter.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 10-04-13 at 12:40 AM.
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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    They are as fraudulent as the radio talk show hosts.

    It's all about them, while they spin the lies that the rabble wants to hear.

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government...

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Negotiations in the mouths of tea partiers means "kill Obamacare". That's not going to happen. They lost. Get over it.

    Democrats in the Senate have already agreed to the numbers, so it isn't about that. But you know that. The GOP position is a farce, like conservatism itself.
    Apparently, you are unaware of the facts here. The last CR proposed only gave individuals a one year reprieve on the mandate and required Congress and staffers would be required to participate in the program just as an average American would. So how does that "kill Obamacare?"

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