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Thread: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government [W:100]

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    It's exactly what he's saying. His point is "say over and over again" that they are willing to negotiate (i.e. repeat the lie), but they aren't going to negotiate. It's kill the ACA or nothing. He's admitting it. His goal is to kill the ACA and he's pretending it's negotiable in public, while conspiring with Mitch and admitting it isn't, in a rather delusional fashion: "we're gonna win this, I think." (i.e., kill the ACA)
    If my "spin speak" is right, I think he means they're going to win the optics on the shutdown. That the Dems didn't test "saying they won't negotiate" and are repeating it to their detriment and all the Repubs have to do is keep claiming they're willing to "negotiate" (even though they really aren't) and the fallout for the shutdown will land on the Dems.

    We all know that "negotiation" will mean completely unobtainable demands. Ridiculous cuts to vital programs, etc. That's the game today.

    The Repubs play the persuasion game better. They may be right.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government...

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Can you give any reasonable hypothetical negotiation common ground on this? Anything?

    I see a single point -the ACA. And it's yes or no.
    Former Repub Congressman Steve LaTourette--outstanding with Chis Matthews--his comments are you don't negotiate over default and the word going around is if Boehner has a majority of a majority, 122 out of 243, he will not default.
    The CR was an interesting discussion. LaTourette, who quit because of the Repub extremists, brought up chained CPI, Keystone and the medical equipment tax, all reasonable. The Bloomberg guy brought up a few Dem items.
    IMV, Repubs already have a lower spending limit agreed to by the Senate. Beyond ACA, any House could try to kill a law or program going forward and all Americans should see the folly of that

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    If my "spin speak" is right, I think he means they're going to win the optics on the shutdown. That the Dems didn't test "saying they won't negotiate" and are repeating it to their detriment and all the Repubs have to do is keep claiming they're willing to "negotiate" (even though they really aren't) and the fallout for the shutdown will land on the Dems.

    We all know that "negotiation" will mean completely unobtainable demands. Ridiculous cuts to vital programs, etc. That's the game today.

    The Repubs play the persuasion game better. They may be right.
    They are better at framing the issues along patently disingenuous lines, regrettable. Think death panels.

    Democrats need to consult George Lakoff before they enter into these public campaigns. However, even the GOP spinmeister Luntz can't save this dog.

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    Democrats can't end the shutdown tomorrow too... but they are steadfast in refusing to negotiate so far.
    Nope, the only thing not negotiable is killing particular laws. Obama said from the start if they want to negogiate cuts, even entitlement cuts, it's on the table.

    You're actually believing your own silly memes at this point. A bad sign. Late stage Obamaphobia.

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    They are better at framing the issues along patently disingenuous lines, regrettable. Think death panels.

    Democrats need to consult George Lakoff before they enter into these public campaigns. However, even the GOP spinmeister Luntz can't save this dog.
    From what I've read Lakoff didn't really want to teach people to be better at manipulating people. He was attempting to counter the Republican tactics, as opposed to teaching the Dems to be better at it.

    But the Dems just want to be better at it.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    From what I've read Lakoff didn't really want to teach people to be better at manipulating people. He was attempting to counter the Republican tactics, as opposed to teaching the Dems to be better at it.

    But the Dems just want to be better at it.
    Well, once you know how a conservative meme works (and Lakoff analyzes that rigorously), it's easy to imitate. Democrats need to focus on that art. It works.

    But it is true, most of what Lakoff writes about is how not to respond to a conservative framing device. Reverse engineering one, however, is worth doing.

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    The vast majority of Republicans, on the condition of anonymity or they'll face a primary, agree that default is not an option and should be off the table.

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    If my "spin speak" is right, I think he means they're going to win the optics on the shutdown. That the Dems didn't test "saying they won't negotiate" and are repeating it to their detriment and all the Repubs have to do is keep claiming they're willing to "negotiate" (even though they really aren't) and the fallout for the shutdown will land on the Dems.

    We all know that "negotiation" will mean completely unobtainable demands. Ridiculous cuts to vital programs, etc. That's the game today.

    The Repubs play the persuasion game better. They may be right.
    Good evening, What if...?

    I honestly can't decide who the legislators in DC seem to despise more...each other, or the American people as a group! :

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good evening, What if...?

    I honestly can't decide who the legislators in DC seem to despise more...each other, or the American people as a group! :
    I sometimes wonder if they even think we're worthy of disdain.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Where did he say that OTHER than from you making assumptions and putting words in his mouth? I imagine both sides are caring about "winning" BECAUSE they think winning will ultimately be what's best for America, not in spite of it. I think it's laughably ridiculous (shocker that I'M the one called cynical in this thread) to think that any of our politicians are sitting there going "Mwhahaha, this will be ****ty for America but it helps ME WIN! And THAT'S What matters, MWHAHAHA".
    I very strongly disagree with you. For both sides, this is about power, and the power has corrupted them.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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