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Thread: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

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    Re: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    It proves that Romney's number one campaign promise was to repeal Obamacare and he didn't get enough votes. Just like the GOP didn't get enough votes to repeal it in congress.
    But they did get enough votes to do something else, didn't they?

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    Re: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    But they did get enough votes to do something else, didn't they?
    Such as?

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    Re: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

    I so sure Think Progress has every fact correct, in context and nothing left out.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Some might call the above an outright lie. I can't keep up with the proposals going back and forth, but I think the last one from the house called for a clean CR for 45 days and going to conference with the Senate to actually put together a budget rather than inane CRs the country has lived with for 5 years because congress ( both house and Senate) have not agreed on a budget. To the best of my knowledge the Senate has not passed one appropriations bill.
    Sorry, its seems to the "best of your knowledge" is short of having sufficient knowledge.

    The Senate passed a budget in March:

    U.S. Senate Approves Budget - WSJ.com

    They have made numerous requests to go to conference with the house to reconcile budgets:

    McCaskill request to go to conference on Budget resolution | Senate Democrats
    Senator Cruz objects to Budget conference | Senate Democrats

    The last CR offer included a provision that the ACA be delayed for a year. That is not a clean CR, that is a CR with a poison pill

    BBC News - US Senate rejects House budget bill as shutdown looms

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    Re: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Whoa, it looks like each side made a wish list, doesn't it? Nevertheless, both sides produced a budget and they should have gone to conference way back in March instead of waiting hours before the debt ceiling deadline. So why didn't they?
    Good question. I blame John Boehner, Harry Reid, and President Obama for that.



    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    "....Passage of the competing spending plans does advance a more orderly budget process after nearly three years of crises and brinkmanship. If House and Senate negotiators can agree on a framework for overhauling the tax code and entitlement programs like Medicare, Congress’s committees could go to work on detailed legislation, possibly under special rules that protect the bills from a Senate filibuster...."


    I don't think either side expected the other to pass each others bill right out of the gate. Instead, each side seems to have put all their pet projects and demands in their bills thinking they would spend the next six months negotiating and hashing it out to come up with something both sides could agree with. I understand that the Senate even appointed conferees, but Boehner refused to appoint any from the House. Why?
    Boehner is an ineffective leader, much like Reid and Obama. Nobody is willing to compromise at this point, so they all shut the government down. That's how it works.

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    Re: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    What would have happened with the economy if we had taken a meat-axe to all portions of the economy equally in Obama's 1st budget?
    Recovery. How about we start with 1% across the board?

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    Re: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    My overall thoughts on the issue.

    The Tea Party View:
    A faction of the GOP (generally members aligned with the Tea Party) sees the Affordable Care Act (ACA) as unconstitutional and catastrophically destructive to the nation. This perspective is an article of faith, making it a more intractable position. The ACA is a proverbial “red line.” From the view of that faction, the ACA “must” be stopped at all costs. Any and all leverage, including the funding of government and the debt ceiling are appropriate means for bringing about that end. That some within the faction have opposed raising the debt ceiling in the past, further reinforces that faction’s view of the debt ceiling’s utility in pursuit of their ideological goal.

    Consequences of its View:
    Given the above, the Supreme Court’s ruling is irrelevant to that faction. That faction’s belief in the “righteousness” of its cause takes precedence over the Supreme Court’s opinion, even as the constitution makes the Supreme Court the final arbiter on constitutional issues. Some material risks exist and potential material benefits are associated with the ACA. Very little concrete evidence is currently available. Some anecdotal information about certain companies reducing hours and/or shifting part-time employees to the Health Exchanges exists. On a macroeconomic perspective, significant adverse impacts do not conclusively show up in the national data. For example even as some firms have reduced hours worked for employees, the average workweek has risen from the lows reached during the recent recession and stabilized. Some figures: January 2009: 33.3 hours; January 2010: 34.0 hours; January 2011: 34.2 hours; January 2012: 34.5 hours; January 2013: 34.4 hours; August 2013: 34.5 hours (latest available). The anecdotal information has not been a factor cited in the Fed’s Beige Books. So, at least from a macroeconomic standpoint, it’s too soon to tell. Those uncertainties are selectively ignored. Consistent with confirmation bias, the faction has attributed weaknesses in the economic data largely or wholly to the ACA, especially as some anecdotal information of adverse impacts exists. In that faction’s view, those weaknesses provide indications that the ACA will have a catastrophic economic impact consistent with its hypothesis, even as the data is inconclusive right now and insurers appear to have adapted (The Republicans' best-funded allies have abandoned them - The Term Sheet: Fortune's deals blogTerm Sheet).

    Lack of Proportionality:
    The ACA’s impact is not of a magnitude that justifies suspending funding to the government as a whole. It also is not of a magnitude that justifies a refusal to raise the debt ceiling, in effect forcing the government to immediately balance its budget with a substantial adverse economic impact and/or default to holders of its debt. Given that the Tea Party faction sees the ACA as an attack on the nation’s constitution and attributes catastrophic economic damage to the law, that sense of proportionality does not exist among that faction. At the same time, that faction’s having made the ACA an identity issue precludes meaningful compromise from that faction. Instead, it expects others to compromise to give it progress toward its end goal of overturning the ACA.

    The House’s Actions:
    With an unyielding stance, the Tea Party faction has essentially gained control of the House Leadership when it comes to the House’s agenda. That’s the result of a combination of its determination and an historically weak House Speaker. As a result, the House has technically passed funding bills, but bills with provisions related to the ACA, even as it knows that neither the President nor Senate will accept them. That strategy has been thwarted by the Senate’s consistent removal of those provisions from continuing resolution legislation. Frustrated by that outcome, the House has proposed conferees to negotiate. Negotiations would extend to differences. Those differences do not relate to funding levels, but again to the ACA. The Senate refused such a conference. The House has now resorted to legislating smaller funding bills, ostensibly to fund areas where there is broad agreement while leaving areas of difference to be resolved later. If successful, that strategy would essentially lead to the Tea Party’s being able to downsize government, limiting it to areas that it views as “constitutional.” Hence, were the Senate or President to go along, not only would the Tea Party faction be able to alleviate public pressure, it would also be able to achieve a reduction in government consistent with its ideology. Hence, it would stand to make big gains and would be in a position to assert that its tactics yield big benefits. Neither the Senate nor the President have accepted that outcome, tempting as it might be e.g., D.C. Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton passionately argued for support of the D.C. funding piece. But if the public fails to understand the realities underlying the dispute, the public could begin to pressure the Senate and President for adoption of piecemeal funding bills.

    What Next?
    The Tea Party faction will likely resist accommodation as it relates to government funding and raising the debt ceiling. It will point to the House’s maneuvers as proof that the House, not Senate or President are acting unreasonably, omitting its linkage between the ACA and “must-pass” legislation. No matter what happens in that fight, some would very likely oppose raising the debt ceiling, as they believe the budget should be balanced immediately and that large parts of the government are unnecessary.

    The best case would involve a rapid end to the current deadlock with the House’s being permitted by the Speaker to vote on the Senate’s continuing resolution and then raising the debt ceiling at or near the same time. The Tea Party faction’s ideological commitment to its ACA-related goal likely precludes that outcome.

    Another possible scenario is that the shutdown and debt ceiling issues would converge. As the clock ticks toward the debt ceiling deadline (currently 10/17 but it could change by a few days based on tax revenue inflows and government expenditures), the issues of funding the government and raising the debt ceiling could merge into single issue. The Senate could facilitate that effort, by adding an unconditional increase in the debt ceiling to its clean continuing resolution.

    It is unlikely that the Tea Party faction has the means to coerce rational Republicans into refusing to raise the debt ceiling. As that deadline approaches, market volatility will increase, public pressure will intensify, and the business community that traditionally supports Republicans could threaten to abandon the GOP. In that environment, rational Republicans will have the cover they need to join the Democrats in bringing an end to the deadlock. Under such pressure, the House Speaker could relent in allowing "clean" legislation to raise the debt ceiling and fund the government to reach the Floor for a vote. If necessary, the bipartisan group would have enough support to use parliamentary maneuvers e.g., a discharge petition, to break the Speaker’s hold on blocking such legislation. It would be uncertain whether John Boehner would remain Speaker in the aftermath of such an outcome, but the nation would avert a major self-inflicted fiscal and economic crisis.

    A bad case, would entail a timely lifting of the debt ceiling (with at least some Tea Party opposition), but a lack of resolution of the government funding issue. That would be the trade-off the Tea Party faction makes with the rest of the GOP caucus in exchange for its not blocking a debt ceiling increase. It is plausible that Speaker Boehner might favor such an approach, as it would appease the Tea Party faction and accommodate the most urgent needs of the more pragmatic GOP representatives.

    The worst case, and I believe odds of that are around 1-in-4, is that the Tea Party faction would prevent a timely increase in the debt ceiling, perhaps but not necessarily on account of the nation hitting the limit somewhat sooner than had been anticipated. The ensuing financial market chaos would then break the deadlock much as happened when TARP was initially rejected. Nevertheless, the nation would wind up suffering from an enduring increase in its risk premium.

    My guess is that something between the best case (but less than it) and the first scenario (perhaps nearer to it) is probably more likely than each of the individual scenarios. Other possibilities also exist. In the wake of the outcome, there will be some adverse economic impact, some increase in the nation's risk premium, and damage to GOP competitiveness that will preclude the GOP from gaining control of the Senate and potentially cost the GOP its House majority.
    Pretty reasonable write-up, except that you utterly ignore the other end of the negotiations. Do you think the left wing extremist democrats who are controlling the senate and the white house might suffer from a lack of proportionality? They obviously think the ACA is a BFD, otherwise they'd compromise and we wouldn't be sitting here with a government shutdown.

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    Re: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

    Boehner let the House vote on a clean bill yet?

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    Re: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Good question. I blame John Boehner, Harry Reid, and President Obama for that.
    Obama doesn't control Beohner..the tea party does and they are thrilled the gubbamint is shut down and some would like to see it made permanent. So how do you negotiate with that?


    Boehner is an ineffective leader, much like Reid and Obama. Nobody is willing to compromise at this point, so they all shut the government down. That's how it works.
    The dems have agreed to negotiate if Boehner will allow an up or down vote on the CR.

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    Re: John Boehner: Obama owns this shutdown now

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    I would say good old Henery "get the job done" Reid is to blame for not letting the Senate vote on the bills passed by the house.
    As Obama told Beohner (or however you spell it) to just bring the bill to the floor of the house, it will pass. The speaker did, and it failed...

    So...Harry Ried needs to bring the bills passed by the House to the Senate floor for a vote...its only right....right?
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

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