• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Government shutdown: House GOP to delay individual mandate

Ockham said:
Granted, but civil war and the loss of life is crossing the Rubicon. I seriously doubt Americans of any ideology would support a civil war over Obamacare or even a hundred Obamacares.
Click to expand...

Then the American people no longer have any values, Ockham, and have become nothing more than the same Sheeple that make up the citizenry of Europe and most of the rest of the world.

Personally, I know more than a few of us who have been ready for the American People to rise up and take this country back for years now. At some point there needs to be a final determination of whether the People or the Government run this country. We've gone to war over that issue twice. The first time the People won. The second time the Government won. Eventually there has to be a deciding match to break the tie.
 
Tigger said:
This isn't about what people WANT. It isn't even about what people NEED. It's about what the US Constitution lays out as the appropriate role of the Government. I have yet to be shown ANY part of the Constitution which gives the US Government power to get involved in medical issues for the populace. Nothing.
Click to expand...
... except when a woman seeks contraception. Then the Gov gets involved pronto!
 
uncleray said:
... except when a woman seeks contraception. Then the Gov gets involved pronto!
Click to expand...

There are things which ARE the purvue of the Government. Contraception is not one of them. Abortion on the other hand, is; but that's for another forum and some other time.
 
Tigger said:
Then the American people no longer have any values, Ockham, and have become nothing more than the same Sheeple that make up the citizenry of Europe and most of the rest of the world.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree that values and morals have been trending down decade over decade.

Tigger said:
Personally, I know more than a few of us who have been ready for the American People to rise up and take this country back for years now. At some point there needs to be a final determination of whether the People or the Government run this country. We've gone to war over that issue twice. The first time the People won. The second time the Government won. Eventually there has to be a deciding match to break the tie.
Click to expand...
I'm sure there are small pockets of people willing... however because times and values and morals have changed, those small pockets which I would guess would make up < 1% of the population would be crushed by "the man", labeled terrorists and killed or jailed. The difference here is humanity has changed wildly since the 1840's.
 
Tigger said:
There are things which ARE the purvue of the Government. Contraception is not one of them. Abortion on the other hand, is; but that's for another forum and some other time.
Click to expand...

Sorry Tigger, you don't hold any more credibiilty than those you criticize. The only difference is you think you are right and everyone else is wrong. You are just the right wing equivalent to a hard core liberal and are two sides of the same coin.
 
Deuce said:
Democrats should counter with a nationwide ban on ammunition sales.



The people have not voted the Republicans enough legislative power to do what they're trying to do here.
Click to expand...

Yes! That's exactly what the Dems should do!...lol!
 
Ockham said:
I'm sure there are small pockets of people willing... however because times and values and morals have changed, those small pockets which I would guess would make up < 1% of the population would be crushed by "the man", labeled terrorists and killed or jailed. The difference here is humanity has changed wildly since the 1840's.
Click to expand...

I don't think the number is quite that small, but it's not large enough, that's for sure.

If the times and values have changed all that much, then humanities last hope for a decent nation is gone, and humankind no long has any more value than cockroaches.

As for being crushed by "the man".... that's likely to happen one way or the other. Some of us just don't want to go down without a fight.
 
TheNextEra said:
Sorry Tigger, you don't hold any more credibiilty than those you criticize.
Click to expand...

The credibility that I and others like me hold is the backing of the US Constitution, and the basic morals and values that society was built upon.
 
Tigger said:
The credibility that I and others like me hold is the backing of the US Constitution, and the basic morals and values that society was built upon.
Click to expand...

That's BS, you've stated many times government should get involved with morality and that has NOTHING to do with the Constitution. You're just like a hard-core liberal, only you're the right-side version which is just as bad. You like big government when it suits you regarding morality. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that backs YOUR version of morality.
 
Tigger said:
I don't think the number is quite that small, but it's not large enough, that's for sure.

If the times and values have changed all that much, then humanities last hope for a decent nation is gone, and humankind no long has any more value than cockroaches.

As for being crushed by "the man".... that's likely to happen one way or the other. Some of us just don't want to go down without a fight.
Click to expand...

Unless such sacrifice produces results or has at least an average chance of working it's a waste of life. Reality is, any armed confrontation without a majority of support AND (here's the key phrase) willingness of that majority to sacrifice their lives, it's doomed to failure before it starts. It's also one thing to muse about it on a forum board and quite another thing to actually doing it. I take the resolve of forum posters with more than a grain of salt.
 
Ockham said:
I'm sure they'll survive just fine.
Click to expand...

The point being that this is actually hurting real people. It's not just political theater. We are doing harm to people and to the economy.


CRUE CAB said:
Better start looking in to those part time jobs we keep hearing about.
Click to expand...

Very compassionate and insightful.

But hey, it's not all bad news. It's uncomfortable for ~800,000 people (they're just government cogs, after all) and hurts the recovering economy, but at least we don't ever have to worry about Obamacare again, right?

Mission accomplished, GOP.
 
WillyPete said:
The point being that this is actually hurting real people. It's not just political theater. We are doing harm to people and to the economy.
Click to expand...

I submit a short term shutdown will not hurt people. This is political theater. Unless this shutdown extends beyond 14 days, people will be able to survive just fine. No children with bloated belly's and fly's in their eyes will occur with a few days shutdown. No one will be thrown out of their homes or apartments because they were not at work for 5 days. Union workers will be assigned to different work locations until the stoppage is over, and non-union workers may just enjoy a few days off.
 
WillyPete said:
The point being that this is actually hurting real people. It's not just political theater. We are doing harm to people and to the economy.
Very compassionate and insightful.

Mission accomplished, GOP.
Click to expand...

Like we dont do harm to people already?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Where was this 61% on election night? If the people truly wanted to repeal the affordable care act, Romney would have won.
Click to expand...

No. Healthcare is a single issue in a popularity contest that is the US elections. It is clear, however, on this particular issue that the general consensus of the American people is against the ACA. Just because Romney lost, doesn't mean the American people disagreed with him on every issue.
 
TheNextEra said:
That's BS, you've stated many times government should get involved with morality and that has NOTHING to do with the Constitution. You're just like a hard-core liberal, only you're the right-side version which is just as bad. You like big government when it suits you regarding morality. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that backs YOUR version of morality.
Click to expand...

I have never claimed to be a Small-Government Conservative. True Conservatives understand that a fair amount of Government is REQUIRED to maintain Law & Order. I happen to believe that the General Welfare and Common Defense language in Article I, Section 8 does include the regulation and maintenance of a set of moral and value standards. Those things are necessary for the General Welfare of the Nation, which is exactly what that language refers to (not the welfare of individual citizens, as the Left would have you believe).

Ockham said:
Unless such sacrifice produces results or has at least an average chance of working it's a waste of life. Reality is, any armed confrontation without a majority of support AND (here's the key phrase) willingness of that majority to sacrifice their lives, it's doomed to failure before it starts. It's also one thing to muse about it on a forum board and quite another thing to actually doing it. I take the resolve of forum posters with more than a grain of salt.
Click to expand...

There is never a waste of life when it is given up for what one believes in, Ockham. The only failure in such a situation is in the acceptance of an improper society/government or the unwillingness to challenge that society/government at every turn.
 
head of joaquin said:
Indeed, the Democrats should have impeached Bush in 2006, as payback for the ridiculous Clinton impeachment.

The problem with Democrats is they actually think conservatives are civilized people. They're freaks. You can't really reason with them; the best strategy is to totally delegitimizie them.
Click to expand...

The only person freakish and in need of delegitimizing is yourself.
 
Tigger said:
I have never claimed to be a Small-Government Conservative. True Conservatives understand that a fair amount of Government is REQUIRED to maintain Law & Order. I happen to believe that the General Welfare and Common Defense language in Article I, Section 8 does include the regulation and maintenance of a set of moral and value standards. Those things are necessary for the General Welfare of the Nation, which is exactly what that language refers to (not the welfare of individual citizens, as the Left would have you believe).
Click to expand...

Nothing YOU want is support of the Consitution, so blaming liberals for doing something you feel is unconstituional is hilarious when you yourself want to do things that are unconsitutional. You are using the clause just like the hard-core liberals use it.

The only differece between a hard-core liberal and yourself is you are currently not getting your way in the government.
 
Ockham said:
I submit a short term shutdown will not hurt people. This is political theater. Unless this shutdown extends beyond 14 days, people will be able to survive just fine. No children with bloated belly's and fly's in their eyes will occur with a few days shutdown. No one will be thrown out of their homes or apartments because they were not at work for 5 days. Union workers will be assigned to different work locations until the stoppage is over, and non-union workers may just enjoy a few days off.
Click to expand...

Way to rationalize. Since no one is going to starve or become homeless (Ockham promises,) no harm is done.

Did the GOP decide how long it's going to last already? Could you share the timeline with us?

If it goes three weeks, Goldman Sachs estimates we'll be about sucking ~1% out of our GDP in the middle of a recovery. <Link>

Worth all of it, of course, since Obamacare is now dead and gone. USA! USA! USA!
 
CRUE CAB said:
Like we dont do harm to people already?
Click to expand...

So more harm is the solution? You have much to teach us, visitor from beyond the stars.
 
Tigger said:
Yes it is. Absolutely ridiculous that the Democrats and Liberals in the US Senate are too full of themselves to look at what their consituents want instead of what those politicians think the citizenry should want.
Click to expand...

Sorry, what is it their constituents want that they are not addressing?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Boehner can't put a clean Continuing resolution onto the floor because he knows the Cast iron conservatives would be outraged and could potentially try to oust him as speaker of the house.

if all the democrats voted for a clean continuing resolution to fund the government, all boehner needs is for 17 republicans to vote yes on the bill, and it passes by a simple majority.
Click to expand...

That, of course, is called poor leadership. Government or management by self-preservation is for cowards and light-weights, which Boehner undoubtedly is.
 
upsideguy said:
Sorry, what is it their constituents want that they are not addressing?
Click to expand...

The majority of Americans want the ACA either revised or repealed, yet the Dems refuse to even consider changes to the law.
 
Tigger said:
The majority of Americans want the ACA either revised or repealed, yet the Dems refuse to even consider changes to the law.
Click to expand...

The polls that count are the elections. The electorate is fickle and polls are easily manipulated. That's part of why we don't have a direct democracy.

The People gave power to the Democrats in 2008, and there have been two national elections since then. They did not give the GOP enough clout in 2010 or 2012 to undo or even meaningfully change Obamacare, even though that was a major plank they ran on. They couldn't even oust Obama.

Perhaps another shellacking in 2014 will give the GOP some new ideas. They've been doubling down on the same tripe for far too long.
 
WillyPete said:
Way to rationalize. Since no one is going to starve or become homeless (Ockham promises,) no harm is done.
Click to expand...
Show me historically of the many government shutdowns how many people have starved and/or become homeless. I'll save you the trouble... the answer is zero. Hyperbole for partisan political points on a forum claiming some disaster will occur during a short government shutdown is just plain stupid.

WillyPete said:
Did the GOP decide how long it's going to last already? Could you share the timeline with us?
Click to expand...
I never claimed to know. Please don't push strawmen - I stated what I stated that no effect will be felt in a short shutdown.

WillyPete said:
If it goes three weeks, Goldman Sachs estimates we'll be about sucking ~1% out of our GDP in the middle of a recovery. <Link>
Click to expand...
Do you always give such deference to the top 1% of the rich scabby bankers or just when it suits your purpose? No bloated children, no dead starving in the streets, no soup lines... anyone even somewhat informed knows better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom